From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.0 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA895C71156 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:10:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A005208C3 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:10:12 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=mess.org header.i=@mess.org header.b="SJYLrwiK" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727666AbgKYJJ4 (ORCPT ); Wed, 25 Nov 2020 04:09:56 -0500 Received: from gofer.mess.org ([88.97.38.141]:33717 "EHLO gofer.mess.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726284AbgKYJJw (ORCPT ); Wed, 25 Nov 2020 04:09:52 -0500 X-Greylist: delayed 492 seconds by postgrey-1.27 at vger.kernel.org; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 04:09:46 EST Received: by gofer.mess.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C2D44C63FB; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=mess.org; s=2020; t=1606294874; bh=KH9dzgywMXfGPGDwmO8Qm6o//zr8KQDL4nO6EawRuDY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=SJYLrwiKZrmMRjkeBYo7cqsbs6xljPuQypU3vE6W0mhxhiBNmXN2bqL5RV07d2awA Wb5Oa7L0TiIxfU/vxoLt2vFycI3gN8Kh1qdOF59uK2dEnqITAnDV+wsiQw/exDF78D hoTz22IC76edW7bl4Xm8hYrqoRAlLOCNTSbizDTKI7x8BBnutJW03OyPsTxurVqfdC T9t8y4uSMzXA9L5TYoAbkkzEdR07qHfBTYdhaiYGGYuE1E1bdzLhtRTU2iYu251NBa zqIr2827TZMk9I1fNh/951tgkmCQWewUCt5nrmXnkgqHhLp9nxDE6gWAGCUXG6XCXv 3mw8Hv064saVQ== Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 From: Sean Young To: James Bottomley Cc: Miguel Ojeda , Kees Cook , Jakub Kicinski , "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , linux-kernel , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, cluster-devel@redhat.com, coreteam@netfilter.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, Linux ARM , linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, Ext4 Developers List , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, Linux Media Mailing List , linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, Linux-MM , linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , Network Development , netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, patches@opensource.cirrus.com, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, selinux@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org, Nick Desaulniers , Nathan Chancellor , Miguel Ojeda , Joe Perches Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang Message-ID: <20201125090114.GA24274@gofer.mess.org> References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 07:58:06AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:19 +0100, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 11:36 PM James Bottomley > > wrote: > > > It's not about the risk of the changes it's about the cost of > > > implementing them. Even if you discount the producer time (which > > > someone gets to pay for, and if I were the engineering manager, I'd > > > be unhappy about), the review/merge/rework time is pretty > > > significant in exchange for six minor bug fixes. Fine, when a new > > > compiler warning comes along it's certainly reasonable to see if we > > > can benefit from it and the fact that the compiler people think > > > it's worthwhile is enough evidence to assume this initially. But > > > at some point you have to ask whether that assumption is supported > > > by the evidence we've accumulated over the time we've been using > > > it. And if the evidence doesn't support it perhaps it is time to > > > stop the experiment. > > > > Maintainers routinely review 1-line trivial patches, not to mention > > internal API changes, etc. > > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 > > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches ... I'm pushing back > on that assumption in two places, firstly the valulessness of the time > and secondly that all trivial patches are valuable. You're assuming burn out or recruitment problems is due to patch workload or too many "trivial" patches. In my experience, "other maintainers" is by far the biggest cause of burn out for my kernel maintenance work. Certainly arguing with a maintainer about some obviously-correct patch series must be a good example of this. Sean From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.3 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D68A1C56201 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:02:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50F93206F9 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:02:32 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lists.infradead.org header.i=@lists.infradead.org header.b="MUIYc2Xu"; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=mess.org header.i=@mess.org header.b="SJYLrwiK" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 50F93206F9 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=mess.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-mtd-bounces+linux-mtd=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=merlin.20170209; h=Sender:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:Cc:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post:List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID: Subject:To:From:Date:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Owner; bh=AWogX0x0E766O7D6GJuU1h+OxN9sOPsoQLKezNmtvz0=; b=MUIYc2Xuw5OEWGMkoVQQ2LS4v KkA+8a0jnFhfeHxqMz246nnxoszEvAs6myvyVj4zNOakckl1hznfnYBJmo8arZW8Ud97J4R3wqu4+ k/F+GmF2Y6jAC3gmoeWaI7uDjV4gUgFKmWZFR7gS3P26m4DbCO1lDowCqCB8lezYFbXOQ5yCr1EcU OCxAYglmMROERsHzSl0sDYLJSg3vQD92NfnVuQ4cMO7cjt5IO+9ky1RWM5T1+mlWJTpAmkMq2TV71 1qAPCp92jrP8Rmv6HpGtIOYtN1lsuuJJQhm54DxqknlrCBPgEUeg20oxROKhwmzHgR49aj48F5nMp xhwtX4Ltw==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=merlin.infradead.org) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khqg2-0006tH-JF; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:26 +0000 Received: from gofer.mess.org ([2a02:8011:d000:212::1]) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khqfw-0006r3-3s; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:21 +0000 Received: by gofer.mess.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C2D44C63FB; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=mess.org; s=2020; t=1606294874; bh=KH9dzgywMXfGPGDwmO8Qm6o//zr8KQDL4nO6EawRuDY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=SJYLrwiKZrmMRjkeBYo7cqsbs6xljPuQypU3vE6W0mhxhiBNmXN2bqL5RV07d2awA Wb5Oa7L0TiIxfU/vxoLt2vFycI3gN8Kh1qdOF59uK2dEnqITAnDV+wsiQw/exDF78D hoTz22IC76edW7bl4Xm8hYrqoRAlLOCNTSbizDTKI7x8BBnutJW03OyPsTxurVqfdC T9t8y4uSMzXA9L5TYoAbkkzEdR07qHfBTYdhaiYGGYuE1E1bdzLhtRTU2iYu251NBa zqIr2827TZMk9I1fNh/951tgkmCQWewUCt5nrmXnkgqHhLp9nxDE6gWAGCUXG6XCXv 3mw8Hv064saVQ== Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 From: Sean Young To: James Bottomley Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang Message-ID: <20201125090114.GA24274@gofer.mess.org> References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20201125_040120_405194_6275BD6F X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 24.11 ) X-BeenThere: linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Linux MTD discussion mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-kernel , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, Miguel Ojeda , linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-mtd" Errors-To: linux-mtd-bounces+linux-mtd=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 07:58:06AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:19 +0100, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 11:36 PM James Bottomley > > wrote: > > > It's not about the risk of the changes it's about the cost of > > > implementing them. Even if you discount the producer time (which > > > someone gets to pay for, and if I were the engineering manager, I'd > > > be unhappy about), the review/merge/rework time is pretty > > > significant in exchange for six minor bug fixes. Fine, when a new > > > compiler warning comes along it's certainly reasonable to see if we > > > can benefit from it and the fact that the compiler people think > > > it's worthwhile is enough evidence to assume this initially. But > > > at some point you have to ask whether that assumption is supported > > > by the evidence we've accumulated over the time we've been using > > > it. And if the evidence doesn't support it perhaps it is time to > > > stop the experiment. > > > > Maintainers routinely review 1-line trivial patches, not to mention > > internal API changes, etc. > > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 > > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches ... I'm pushing back > on that assumption in two places, firstly the valulessness of the time > and secondly that all trivial patches are valuable. You're assuming burn out or recruitment problems is due to patch workload or too many "trivial" patches. In my experience, "other maintainers" is by far the biggest cause of burn out for my kernel maintenance work. Certainly arguing with a maintainer about some obviously-correct patch series must be a good example of this. Sean ______________________________________________________ Linux MTD discussion mailing list http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/ From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.3 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C10AC56201 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C389206B5 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:29 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lists.infradead.org header.i=@lists.infradead.org header.b="vIBkP0lY"; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=mess.org header.i=@mess.org header.b="SJYLrwiK" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 9C389206B5 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=mess.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-mediatek-bounces+linux-mediatek=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=merlin.20170209; h=Sender:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:Cc:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post:List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID: Subject:To:From:Date:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Owner; bh=rCVJpt3jKwF1Sn96noQ+tpv/Sh08cS0A//64pJGRFfo=; b=vIBkP0lY8YM4ozGs9m+6nk35v 1KH4TT5jhe34incf1JBM5PKsefMOqqZdpRQwIDlg8f3cmYKqIwfSUAlV0u5ilibma1gdHQmPSfvug DzrYY8oqrxILwVGRxkKtq+40cJrDm0uGzo4xm7YVAMmmkrnSC8cs2icHL2wgRKfUghkuds7T0lBOA 2dtZnSDzn+vQNGC5aAo38Fbacs4M3BoeiXszWZgh3fOyafkD0pBf4u+1omxDuTXiPP624KWafAvpv 0QU8FJ/R6tyt3EwS2wWgSMlnig1HxO0Lx4n3iIUoHKjGDQQAV1nkYbvenWY9s6NWll+hJik2LCyF1 Zag3ouu4Q==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=merlin.infradead.org) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khqg0-0006sz-Rm; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:24 +0000 Received: from gofer.mess.org ([2a02:8011:d000:212::1]) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khqfw-0006r3-3s; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:21 +0000 Received: by gofer.mess.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C2D44C63FB; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=mess.org; s=2020; t=1606294874; bh=KH9dzgywMXfGPGDwmO8Qm6o//zr8KQDL4nO6EawRuDY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=SJYLrwiKZrmMRjkeBYo7cqsbs6xljPuQypU3vE6W0mhxhiBNmXN2bqL5RV07d2awA Wb5Oa7L0TiIxfU/vxoLt2vFycI3gN8Kh1qdOF59uK2dEnqITAnDV+wsiQw/exDF78D hoTz22IC76edW7bl4Xm8hYrqoRAlLOCNTSbizDTKI7x8BBnutJW03OyPsTxurVqfdC T9t8y4uSMzXA9L5TYoAbkkzEdR07qHfBTYdhaiYGGYuE1E1bdzLhtRTU2iYu251NBa zqIr2827TZMk9I1fNh/951tgkmCQWewUCt5nrmXnkgqHhLp9nxDE6gWAGCUXG6XCXv 3mw8Hv064saVQ== Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 From: Sean Young To: James Bottomley Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang Message-ID: <20201125090114.GA24274@gofer.mess.org> References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20201125_040120_405194_6275BD6F X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 24.11 ) X-BeenThere: linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-kernel , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, Miguel Ojeda , linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "Linux-mediatek" Errors-To: linux-mediatek-bounces+linux-mediatek=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 07:58:06AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:19 +0100, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 11:36 PM James Bottomley > > wrote: > > > It's not about the risk of the changes it's about the cost of > > > implementing them. Even if you discount the producer time (which > > > someone gets to pay for, and if I were the engineering manager, I'd > > > be unhappy about), the review/merge/rework time is pretty > > > significant in exchange for six minor bug fixes. Fine, when a new > > > compiler warning comes along it's certainly reasonable to see if we > > > can benefit from it and the fact that the compiler people think > > > it's worthwhile is enough evidence to assume this initially. But > > > at some point you have to ask whether that assumption is supported > > > by the evidence we've accumulated over the time we've been using > > > it. And if the evidence doesn't support it perhaps it is time to > > > stop the experiment. > > > > Maintainers routinely review 1-line trivial patches, not to mention > > internal API changes, etc. > > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 > > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches ... I'm pushing back > on that assumption in two places, firstly the valulessness of the time > and secondly that all trivial patches are valuable. You're assuming burn out or recruitment problems is due to patch workload or too many "trivial" patches. In my experience, "other maintainers" is by far the biggest cause of burn out for my kernel maintenance work. Certainly arguing with a maintainer about some obviously-correct patch series must be a good example of this. Sean _______________________________________________ Linux-mediatek mailing list Linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mediatek From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.0 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 661F5C56202 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:24:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DEE021D81 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:24:47 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=mess.org header.i=@mess.org header.b="SJYLrwiK" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 6DEE021D81 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=mess.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67A306E885; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:24:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 506 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at gabe; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:09:46 UTC Received: from gofer.mess.org (gofer.mess.org [88.97.38.141]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F6EC89BF8; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:09:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gofer.mess.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C2D44C63FB; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=mess.org; s=2020; t=1606294874; bh=KH9dzgywMXfGPGDwmO8Qm6o//zr8KQDL4nO6EawRuDY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=SJYLrwiKZrmMRjkeBYo7cqsbs6xljPuQypU3vE6W0mhxhiBNmXN2bqL5RV07d2awA Wb5Oa7L0TiIxfU/vxoLt2vFycI3gN8Kh1qdOF59uK2dEnqITAnDV+wsiQw/exDF78D hoTz22IC76edW7bl4Xm8hYrqoRAlLOCNTSbizDTKI7x8BBnutJW03OyPsTxurVqfdC T9t8y4uSMzXA9L5TYoAbkkzEdR07qHfBTYdhaiYGGYuE1E1bdzLhtRTU2iYu251NBa zqIr2827TZMk9I1fNh/951tgkmCQWewUCt5nrmXnkgqHhLp9nxDE6gWAGCUXG6XCXv 3mw8Hv064saVQ== Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 From: Sean Young To: James Bottomley Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang Message-ID: <20201125090114.GA24274@gofer.mess.org> References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:24:08 +0000 X-BeenThere: dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Direct Rendering Infrastructure - Development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-kernel , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, Miguel Ojeda , linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "dri-devel" On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 07:58:06AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:19 +0100, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 11:36 PM James Bottomley > > wrote: > > > It's not about the risk of the changes it's about the cost of > > > implementing them. Even if you discount the producer time (which > > > someone gets to pay for, and if I were the engineering manager, I'd > > > be unhappy about), the review/merge/rework time is pretty > > > significant in exchange for six minor bug fixes. Fine, when a new > > > compiler warning comes along it's certainly reasonable to see if we > > > can benefit from it and the fact that the compiler people think > > > it's worthwhile is enough evidence to assume this initially. But > > > at some point you have to ask whether that assumption is supported > > > by the evidence we've accumulated over the time we've been using > > > it. And if the evidence doesn't support it perhaps it is time to > > > stop the experiment. > > > > Maintainers routinely review 1-line trivial patches, not to mention > > internal API changes, etc. > > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 > > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches ... I'm pushing back > on that assumption in two places, firstly the valulessness of the time > and secondly that all trivial patches are valuable. You're assuming burn out or recruitment problems is due to patch workload or too many "trivial" patches. In my experience, "other maintainers" is by far the biggest cause of burn out for my kernel maintenance work. Certainly arguing with a maintainer about some obviously-correct patch series must be a good example of this. Sean _______________________________________________ dri-devel mailing list dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D61BC56202 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:36:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com [216.205.24.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3E2B20B80 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:36:36 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org A3E2B20B80 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=mess.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=tempfail smtp.mailfrom=dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-201-X5VFeN9KMs-FUz2vlr2Y0w-1; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 03:36:31 -0500 X-MC-Unique: X5VFeN9KMs-FUz2vlr2Y0w-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx04.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB81880EDB2; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:36:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from colo-mx.corp.redhat.com (colo-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.21]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 533755D9CA; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:36:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com (lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.19.33]) by colo-mx.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C63B4E58F; Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:36:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx04.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.54.4]) by lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 0AP99qPM002870 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 04:09:52 -0500 Received: by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) id 62A4E2026D37; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:09:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (mimecast01.extmail.prod.ext.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.55.17]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DBD32026D35 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:09:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from us-smtp-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-1.mimecast.com [207.211.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18FC8858284 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:09:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gofer.mess.org (gofer.mess.org [88.97.38.141]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-77-PwziddjFNDaCPjzOovkpig-1; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 04:09:46 -0500 X-MC-Unique: PwziddjFNDaCPjzOovkpig-1 Received: by gofer.mess.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C2D44C63FB; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 (GMT) Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 From: Sean Young To: James Bottomley Message-ID: <20201125090114.GA24274@gofer.mess.org> References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Mimecast-Impersonation-Protect: Policy=CLT - Impersonation Protection Definition; Similar Internal Domain=false; Similar Monitored External Domain=false; Custom External Domain=false; Mimecast External Domain=false; Newly Observed Domain=false; Internal User Name=false; Custom Display Name List=false; Reply-to Address Mismatch=false; Targeted Threat Dictionary=false; Mimecast Threat Dictionary=false; Custom Threat Dictionary=false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.11.54.4 X-loop: dm-devel@redhat.com X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 26 Nov 2020 03:35:50 -0500 Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-kernel , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, drbd-dev@tron.linbit.com, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, Miguel Ojeda , linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang X-BeenThere: dm-devel@redhat.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: junk List-Id: device-mapper development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com Errors-To: dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.14 Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 07:58:06AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:19 +0100, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 11:36 PM James Bottomley > > wrote: > > > It's not about the risk of the changes it's about the cost of > > > implementing them. Even if you discount the producer time (which > > > someone gets to pay for, and if I were the engineering manager, I'd > > > be unhappy about), the review/merge/rework time is pretty > > > significant in exchange for six minor bug fixes. Fine, when a new > > > compiler warning comes along it's certainly reasonable to see if we > > > can benefit from it and the fact that the compiler people think > > > it's worthwhile is enough evidence to assume this initially. But > > > at some point you have to ask whether that assumption is supported > > > by the evidence we've accumulated over the time we've been using > > > it. And if the evidence doesn't support it perhaps it is time to > > > stop the experiment. > > > > Maintainers routinely review 1-line trivial patches, not to mention > > internal API changes, etc. > > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 > > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches ... I'm pushing back > on that assumption in two places, firstly the valulessness of the time > and secondly that all trivial patches are valuable. You're assuming burn out or recruitment problems is due to patch workload or too many "trivial" patches. In my experience, "other maintainers" is by far the biggest cause of burn out for my kernel maintenance work. Certainly arguing with a maintainer about some obviously-correct patch series must be a good example of this. Sean -- dm-devel mailing list dm-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/dm-devel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.0 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF59C6379D for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 17:07:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC8662063A for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 17:07:15 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=mess.org header.i=@mess.org header.b="SJYLrwiK" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org BC8662063A Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=mess.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=intel-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B84DC6EA07; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 17:07:14 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 506 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at gabe; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:09:46 UTC Received: from gofer.mess.org (gofer.mess.org [88.97.38.141]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F6EC89BF8; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:09:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gofer.mess.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C2D44C63FB; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=mess.org; s=2020; t=1606294874; bh=KH9dzgywMXfGPGDwmO8Qm6o//zr8KQDL4nO6EawRuDY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=SJYLrwiKZrmMRjkeBYo7cqsbs6xljPuQypU3vE6W0mhxhiBNmXN2bqL5RV07d2awA Wb5Oa7L0TiIxfU/vxoLt2vFycI3gN8Kh1qdOF59uK2dEnqITAnDV+wsiQw/exDF78D hoTz22IC76edW7bl4Xm8hYrqoRAlLOCNTSbizDTKI7x8BBnutJW03OyPsTxurVqfdC T9t8y4uSMzXA9L5TYoAbkkzEdR07qHfBTYdhaiYGGYuE1E1bdzLhtRTU2iYu251NBa zqIr2827TZMk9I1fNh/951tgkmCQWewUCt5nrmXnkgqHhLp9nxDE6gWAGCUXG6XCXv 3mw8Hv064saVQ== Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 From: Sean Young To: James Bottomley Message-ID: <20201125090114.GA24274@gofer.mess.org> References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 17:07:12 +0000 Subject: Re: [Intel-gfx] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang X-BeenThere: intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Intel graphics driver community testing & development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-kernel , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, Miguel Ojeda , linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: intel-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "Intel-gfx" On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 07:58:06AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:19 +0100, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 11:36 PM James Bottomley > > wrote: > > > It's not about the risk of the changes it's about the cost of > > > implementing them. Even if you discount the producer time (which > > > someone gets to pay for, and if I were the engineering manager, I'd > > > be unhappy about), the review/merge/rework time is pretty > > > significant in exchange for six minor bug fixes. Fine, when a new > > > compiler warning comes along it's certainly reasonable to see if we > > > can benefit from it and the fact that the compiler people think > > > it's worthwhile is enough evidence to assume this initially. But > > > at some point you have to ask whether that assumption is supported > > > by the evidence we've accumulated over the time we've been using > > > it. And if the evidence doesn't support it perhaps it is time to > > > stop the experiment. > > > > Maintainers routinely review 1-line trivial patches, not to mention > > internal API changes, etc. > > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 > > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches ... I'm pushing back > on that assumption in two places, firstly the valulessness of the time > and secondly that all trivial patches are valuable. You're assuming burn out or recruitment problems is due to patch workload or too many "trivial" patches. In my experience, "other maintainers" is by far the biggest cause of burn out for my kernel maintenance work. Certainly arguing with a maintainer about some obviously-correct patch series must be a good example of this. Sean _______________________________________________ Intel-gfx mailing list Intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/intel-gfx From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.0 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17132C63798 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 13:51:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0625B20656 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 13:51:02 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=mess.org header.i=@mess.org header.b="SJYLrwiK" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 0625B20656 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=mess.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=amd-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A3F895E2; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 13:51:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: delayed 506 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at gabe; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:09:46 UTC Received: from gofer.mess.org (gofer.mess.org [88.97.38.141]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F6EC89BF8; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:09:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by gofer.mess.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C2D44C63FB; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=mess.org; s=2020; t=1606294874; bh=KH9dzgywMXfGPGDwmO8Qm6o//zr8KQDL4nO6EawRuDY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=SJYLrwiKZrmMRjkeBYo7cqsbs6xljPuQypU3vE6W0mhxhiBNmXN2bqL5RV07d2awA Wb5Oa7L0TiIxfU/vxoLt2vFycI3gN8Kh1qdOF59uK2dEnqITAnDV+wsiQw/exDF78D hoTz22IC76edW7bl4Xm8hYrqoRAlLOCNTSbizDTKI7x8BBnutJW03OyPsTxurVqfdC T9t8y4uSMzXA9L5TYoAbkkzEdR07qHfBTYdhaiYGGYuE1E1bdzLhtRTU2iYu251NBa zqIr2827TZMk9I1fNh/951tgkmCQWewUCt5nrmXnkgqHhLp9nxDE6gWAGCUXG6XCXv 3mw8Hv064saVQ== Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 From: Sean Young To: James Bottomley Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang Message-ID: <20201125090114.GA24274@gofer.mess.org> References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 13:51:01 +0000 X-BeenThere: amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for AMD gfx List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-kernel , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, Miguel Ojeda , linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: amd-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "amd-gfx" On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 07:58:06AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:19 +0100, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 11:36 PM James Bottomley > > wrote: > > > It's not about the risk of the changes it's about the cost of > > > implementing them. Even if you discount the producer time (which > > > someone gets to pay for, and if I were the engineering manager, I'd > > > be unhappy about), the review/merge/rework time is pretty > > > significant in exchange for six minor bug fixes. Fine, when a new > > > compiler warning comes along it's certainly reasonable to see if we > > > can benefit from it and the fact that the compiler people think > > > it's worthwhile is enough evidence to assume this initially. But > > > at some point you have to ask whether that assumption is supported > > > by the evidence we've accumulated over the time we've been using > > > it. And if the evidence doesn't support it perhaps it is time to > > > stop the experiment. > > > > Maintainers routinely review 1-line trivial patches, not to mention > > internal API changes, etc. > > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 > > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches ... I'm pushing back > on that assumption in two places, firstly the valulessness of the time > and secondly that all trivial patches are valuable. You're assuming burn out or recruitment problems is due to patch workload or too many "trivial" patches. In my experience, "other maintainers" is by far the biggest cause of burn out for my kernel maintenance work. Certainly arguing with a maintainer about some obviously-correct patch series must be a good example of this. Sean _______________________________________________ amd-gfx mailing list amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/amd-gfx From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.3 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49E57C56201 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:57:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59CB42083E for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:57:30 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lists.infradead.org header.i=@lists.infradead.org header.b="ft4SNDwc"; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=mess.org header.i=@mess.org header.b="SJYLrwiK" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 59CB42083E Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=mess.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-i3c-bounces+linux-i3c=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=merlin.20170209; h=Sender:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:Cc:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post:List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID: Subject:To:From:Date:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Owner; bh=3r/lVWwmxXYZtI7P1q0hQ8Ob6JWqM5GCT80J/f0VczA=; b=ft4SNDwcg5lOeaPx2Qz0QinSX yV/rHzFzyD8mFl7Y7YoZbxq1WYoJv0cV/upellv0XZ0PIFDVeOtQYE9WC1+BKJbAnwD70ZXt/MLDS 5rX9z5+9SgicNlS7fuc5YrtgcV53AUkNPKia/5HIpbDTioW4agLVjNLH0Pjii30IQMWwT9VIcG0qE 5fqrp45cINh8o6RulrSnjrLvi4H5fl9NeIOLV4fx/IATeLGwCehCtuXag/MVdULE9LXTpocPFNjHn oUwJv3oYgLMeK/DQPUZz0rd/bip9sI9vLobUyAEExxZ6kMW6rUaZ1KCEwXMFVa4NCJIkaEYzOwsBf i8v0VzenA==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=merlin.infradead.org) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khrYH-0006bq-Hf; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:57:29 +0000 Received: from gofer.mess.org ([2a02:8011:d000:212::1]) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khqfw-0006r3-3s; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:21 +0000 Received: by gofer.mess.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C2D44C63FB; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=mess.org; s=2020; t=1606294874; bh=KH9dzgywMXfGPGDwmO8Qm6o//zr8KQDL4nO6EawRuDY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=SJYLrwiKZrmMRjkeBYo7cqsbs6xljPuQypU3vE6W0mhxhiBNmXN2bqL5RV07d2awA Wb5Oa7L0TiIxfU/vxoLt2vFycI3gN8Kh1qdOF59uK2dEnqITAnDV+wsiQw/exDF78D hoTz22IC76edW7bl4Xm8hYrqoRAlLOCNTSbizDTKI7x8BBnutJW03OyPsTxurVqfdC T9t8y4uSMzXA9L5TYoAbkkzEdR07qHfBTYdhaiYGGYuE1E1bdzLhtRTU2iYu251NBa zqIr2827TZMk9I1fNh/951tgkmCQWewUCt5nrmXnkgqHhLp9nxDE6gWAGCUXG6XCXv 3mw8Hv064saVQ== Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 From: Sean Young To: James Bottomley Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang Message-ID: <20201125090114.GA24274@gofer.mess.org> References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20201125_040120_405194_6275BD6F X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 24.11 ) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 04:56:58 -0500 X-BeenThere: linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-kernel , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, Miguel Ojeda , linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-i3c" Errors-To: linux-i3c-bounces+linux-i3c=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 07:58:06AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:19 +0100, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 11:36 PM James Bottomley > > wrote: > > > It's not about the risk of the changes it's about the cost of > > > implementing them. Even if you discount the producer time (which > > > someone gets to pay for, and if I were the engineering manager, I'd > > > be unhappy about), the review/merge/rework time is pretty > > > significant in exchange for six minor bug fixes. Fine, when a new > > > compiler warning comes along it's certainly reasonable to see if we > > > can benefit from it and the fact that the compiler people think > > > it's worthwhile is enough evidence to assume this initially. But > > > at some point you have to ask whether that assumption is supported > > > by the evidence we've accumulated over the time we've been using > > > it. And if the evidence doesn't support it perhaps it is time to > > > stop the experiment. > > > > Maintainers routinely review 1-line trivial patches, not to mention > > internal API changes, etc. > > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 > > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches ... I'm pushing back > on that assumption in two places, firstly the valulessness of the time > and secondly that all trivial patches are valuable. You're assuming burn out or recruitment problems is due to patch workload or too many "trivial" patches. In my experience, "other maintainers" is by far the biggest cause of burn out for my kernel maintenance work. Certainly arguing with a maintainer about some obviously-correct patch series must be a good example of this. Sean -- linux-i3c mailing list linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-i3c From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Sean Young Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 Subject: [Intel-wired-lan] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Message-ID: <20201125090114.GA24274@gofer.mess.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: intel-wired-lan@osuosl.org List-ID: On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 07:58:06AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:19 +0100, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 11:36 PM James Bottomley > > wrote: > > > It's not about the risk of the changes it's about the cost of > > > implementing them. Even if you discount the producer time (which > > > someone gets to pay for, and if I were the engineering manager, I'd > > > be unhappy about), the review/merge/rework time is pretty > > > significant in exchange for six minor bug fixes. Fine, when a new > > > compiler warning comes along it's certainly reasonable to see if we > > > can benefit from it and the fact that the compiler people think > > > it's worthwhile is enough evidence to assume this initially. But > > > at some point you have to ask whether that assumption is supported > > > by the evidence we've accumulated over the time we've been using > > > it. And if the evidence doesn't support it perhaps it is time to > > > stop the experiment. > > > > Maintainers routinely review 1-line trivial patches, not to mention > > internal API changes, etc. > > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 > > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches ... I'm pushing back > on that assumption in two places, firstly the valulessness of the time > and secondly that all trivial patches are valuable. You're assuming burn out or recruitment problems is due to patch workload or too many "trivial" patches. In my experience, "other maintainers" is by far the biggest cause of burn out for my kernel maintenance work. Certainly arguing with a maintainer about some obviously-correct patch series must be a good example of this. Sean From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Sean Young Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 Subject: [Cluster-devel] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Message-ID: <20201125090114.GA24274@gofer.mess.org> List-Id: To: cluster-devel.redhat.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 07:58:06AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:19 +0100, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 11:36 PM James Bottomley > > wrote: > > > It's not about the risk of the changes it's about the cost of > > > implementing them. Even if you discount the producer time (which > > > someone gets to pay for, and if I were the engineering manager, I'd > > > be unhappy about), the review/merge/rework time is pretty > > > significant in exchange for six minor bug fixes. Fine, when a new > > > compiler warning comes along it's certainly reasonable to see if we > > > can benefit from it and the fact that the compiler people think > > > it's worthwhile is enough evidence to assume this initially. But > > > at some point you have to ask whether that assumption is supported > > > by the evidence we've accumulated over the time we've been using > > > it. And if the evidence doesn't support it perhaps it is time to > > > stop the experiment. > > > > Maintainers routinely review 1-line trivial patches, not to mention > > internal API changes, etc. > > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 > > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches ... I'm pushing back > on that assumption in two places, firstly the valulessness of the time > and secondly that all trivial patches are valuable. You're assuming burn out or recruitment problems is due to patch workload or too many "trivial" patches. In my experience, "other maintainers" is by far the biggest cause of burn out for my kernel maintenance work. Certainly arguing with a maintainer about some obviously-correct patch series must be a good example of this. Sean From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=mess.org; s=2020; t=1606294874; bh=KH9dzgywMXfGPGDwmO8Qm6o//zr8KQDL4nO6EawRuDY=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=SJYLrwiKZrmMRjkeBYo7cqsbs6xljPuQypU3vE6W0mhxhiBNmXN2bqL5RV07d2awA Wb5Oa7L0TiIxfU/vxoLt2vFycI3gN8Kh1qdOF59uK2dEnqITAnDV+wsiQw/exDF78D hoTz22IC76edW7bl4Xm8hYrqoRAlLOCNTSbizDTKI7x8BBnutJW03OyPsTxurVqfdC T9t8y4uSMzXA9L5TYoAbkkzEdR07qHfBTYdhaiYGGYuE1E1bdzLhtRTU2iYu251NBa zqIr2827TZMk9I1fNh/951tgkmCQWewUCt5nrmXnkgqHhLp9nxDE6gWAGCUXG6XCXv 3mw8Hv064saVQ== Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:01:14 +0000 From: Sean Young Message-ID: <20201125090114.GA24274@gofer.mess.org> References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [Bridge] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang List-Id: Linux Ethernet Bridging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: James Bottomley Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-kernel , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, Miguel Ojeda , linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 07:58:06AM -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 15:19 +0100, Miguel Ojeda wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 11:36 PM James Bottomley > > wrote: > > > It's not about the risk of the changes it's about the cost of > > > implementing them. Even if you discount the producer time (which > > > someone gets to pay for, and if I were the engineering manager, I'd > > > be unhappy about), the review/merge/rework time is pretty > > > significant in exchange for six minor bug fixes. Fine, when a new > > > compiler warning comes along it's certainly reasonable to see if we > > > can benefit from it and the fact that the compiler people think > > > it's worthwhile is enough evidence to assume this initially. But > > > at some point you have to ask whether that assumption is supported > > > by the evidence we've accumulated over the time we've been using > > > it. And if the evidence doesn't support it perhaps it is time to > > > stop the experiment. > > > > Maintainers routinely review 1-line trivial patches, not to mention > > internal API changes, etc. > > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 > > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches ... I'm pushing back > on that assumption in two places, firstly the valulessness of the time > and secondly that all trivial patches are valuable. You're assuming burn out or recruitment problems is due to patch workload or too many "trivial" patches. In my experience, "other maintainers" is by far the biggest cause of burn out for my kernel maintenance work. Certainly arguing with a maintainer about some obviously-correct patch series must be a good example of this. Sean