From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1462EC433DB for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 21:03:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D8264F10 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 21:03:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S230120AbhBDVCp (ORCPT ); Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:02:45 -0500 Received: from jabberwock.ucw.cz ([46.255.230.98]:58916 "EHLO jabberwock.ucw.cz" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S230110AbhBDVCj (ORCPT ); Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:02:39 -0500 Received: by jabberwock.ucw.cz (Postfix, from userid 1017) id 864111C0B77; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 22:01:41 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 22:01:41 +0100 From: Pavel Machek To: Andy Shevchenko Cc: David Laight , Arnd Bergmann , Willy Tarreau , Linux ARM , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Krzysztof Adamski , Oleksij Rempel , Baruch Siach , Russell King - ARM Linux , Daniel Tang , Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleine-K=F6nig?= , Jamie Iles , Barry Song , Viresh Kumar , Linus Walleij , Jonas Jensen , Marc Gonzalez , Hartley Sweeten , Lubomir Rintel , Neil Armstrong , Shawn Guo , Alex Elder , Alexander Shiyan , Koen Vandeputte , Hans Ulli Kroll , Vladimir Zapolskiy , Wei Xu , Steven Rostedt , Yoshinori Sato , Mark Salter , Michael Ellerman , Geert Uytterhoeven , Thomas Bogendoerfer Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead Message-ID: <20210204210140.GB7529@amd> References: <20210109055645.GA2009@1wt.eu> <6fb7e3f5035d44fab9801001f1811b59@AcuMS.aculab.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rS8CxjVDS/+yyDmU" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --rS8CxjVDS/+yyDmU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! > > > I think there were 486s with up to 256MB, which would still qualify a= s barely > > > usable for a minimal desktop, or as comfortable for a deeply embedded > > > system. The main limit was apparently the cacheable RAM, which is lim= ited > > > by the amount of L2 cache -- you needed a rare 1MB of external L2-cac= he to > > > have 256MB of cached RAM, while more common 256KB of cache would > > > be good for 64MB. Vortex86SX has no FPU or L2 cache at all, but suppo= rts > > > 256MB of DDR2. > > > > There are also some newer (well less than 30 year old) cpus that are >=20 > (less than 10 years actually) >=20 > > basically 486 but have a few extra instructions - probably just cpuid > > and (IIRC) rdtsc. > > Designed for low power embedded use they won't ever have been suitable > > for a desktop - but are probably fast enough for some uses. > > I'm not sure how much keeping 486 support actually costs, 386 was a > > PITA - but the 486 fixed most of those issues. >=20 > Right, we have "last of mohicans" (to date) Intel Quark family of CPUs > (486 core + few i586 features). > This is for the embedded world and probably not for powerful use. We have open-hardware implementation for 486, AFAICT, thanks to MISTer project. I'm not aware of open 586 core. Being able to run recent Linux on open hardware sounds fun. Pavel --=20 http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek --rS8CxjVDS/+yyDmU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAmAcYLQACgkQMOfwapXb+vInqACgkjLbN2uUqZLXo2W9Cd3FXVon dyoAoIhEHuOXjjaQz6PaPWREnmtzlUD9 =iKmM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rS8CxjVDS/+yyDmU-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.6 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B626DC433E0 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 21:03:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 449C960C3E for ; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 21:03:09 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 449C960C3E Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=ucw.cz Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=merlin.20170209; h=Sender:Content-Type:Cc: List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post:List-Archive:List-Unsubscribe:List-Id: In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Owner; bh=EONrZeqJbP5HW/lXYRTz9ksfhMRFUTjvqx14BS8dLKE=; b=GhSGZkxnya9iGW0Ep3cZs36ba Le95JVTBDwgr708gLxT6dWXAzU9MJlusugKewXg1JxIa7eXE+vKNuEVa75cS0vmnaebCTMoJRQrvX nv+tpf9hm4pzgx+3a0hoBiredngwbbRLulXEXTk2Yyr069fJY8qt5Vj+UeG0wCReTWctz+QId4I/i 9WtJWra+mVOvkikf/GIb/Rs9sqSvBOxkECWaGp9S4USWo4Q42ChLTtsbhumtQ/QWBMJIiu+ysaZx5 WgloXMm7en1DwnuoSUWz/rv75NrZzRj8nMR3krQYIvS4D1a3Ppf3bQeMtbZQuES0DT8jCWYgZXCtF byr4yWL+A==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=merlin.infradead.org) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1l7ll5-0003ey-6k; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 21:01:47 +0000 Received: from jabberwock.ucw.cz ([46.255.230.98]) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1l7ll1-0003eH-S5 for linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org; Thu, 04 Feb 2021 21:01:44 +0000 Received: by jabberwock.ucw.cz (Postfix, from userid 1017) id 864111C0B77; Thu, 4 Feb 2021 22:01:41 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 22:01:41 +0100 From: Pavel Machek To: Andy Shevchenko Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead Message-ID: <20210204210140.GB7529@amd> References: <20210109055645.GA2009@1wt.eu> <6fb7e3f5035d44fab9801001f1811b59@AcuMS.aculab.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20210204_160144_028240_7AAC030E X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 23.26 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Baruch Siach , Geert Uytterhoeven , Neil Armstrong , Viresh Kumar , Linus Walleij , Daniel Tang , Jamie Iles , Krzysztof Adamski , Alexander Shiyan , Michael Ellerman , Yoshinori Sato , Russell King - ARM Linux , Wei Xu , Oleksij Rempel , Alex Elder , Marc Gonzalez , Hans Ulli Kroll , Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleine-K=F6nig?= , Steven Rostedt , Vladimir Zapolskiy , Lubomir Rintel , Koen Vandeputte , Linux ARM , Barry Song , Arnd Bergmann , Thomas Bogendoerfer , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Jonas Jensen , Hartley Sweeten , David Laight , Mark Salter , Shawn Guo , Willy Tarreau Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3311364571955179557==" Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org --===============3311364571955179557== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="rS8CxjVDS/+yyDmU" Content-Disposition: inline --rS8CxjVDS/+yyDmU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! > > > I think there were 486s with up to 256MB, which would still qualify a= s barely > > > usable for a minimal desktop, or as comfortable for a deeply embedded > > > system. The main limit was apparently the cacheable RAM, which is lim= ited > > > by the amount of L2 cache -- you needed a rare 1MB of external L2-cac= he to > > > have 256MB of cached RAM, while more common 256KB of cache would > > > be good for 64MB. Vortex86SX has no FPU or L2 cache at all, but suppo= rts > > > 256MB of DDR2. > > > > There are also some newer (well less than 30 year old) cpus that are >=20 > (less than 10 years actually) >=20 > > basically 486 but have a few extra instructions - probably just cpuid > > and (IIRC) rdtsc. > > Designed for low power embedded use they won't ever have been suitable > > for a desktop - but are probably fast enough for some uses. > > I'm not sure how much keeping 486 support actually costs, 386 was a > > PITA - but the 486 fixed most of those issues. >=20 > Right, we have "last of mohicans" (to date) Intel Quark family of CPUs > (486 core + few i586 features). > This is for the embedded world and probably not for powerful use. We have open-hardware implementation for 486, AFAICT, thanks to MISTer project. I'm not aware of open 586 core. Being able to run recent Linux on open hardware sounds fun. Pavel --=20 http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek --rS8CxjVDS/+yyDmU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAmAcYLQACgkQMOfwapXb+vInqACgkjLbN2uUqZLXo2W9Cd3FXVon dyoAoIhEHuOXjjaQz6PaPWREnmtzlUD9 =iKmM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --rS8CxjVDS/+yyDmU-- --===============3311364571955179557== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel --===============3311364571955179557==--