From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 160E5C433B4 for ; Mon, 10 May 2021 13:06:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF5F9613D6 for ; Mon, 10 May 2021 13:06:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S236334AbhEJNH3 (ORCPT ); Mon, 10 May 2021 09:07:29 -0400 Received: from mail.kernel.org ([198.145.29.99]:44172 "EHLO mail.kernel.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S243600AbhEJL4e (ORCPT ); Mon, 10 May 2021 07:56:34 -0400 Received: by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 383C061260; Mon, 10 May 2021 11:55:22 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1620647729; bh=dyIPtb49LgFnCoKazyq+bQhPSj3PCobNssG21KHdoK4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=S4cpkndG9UuTYGkhKfO3hJLbYIHDWve5Su3QQFRXInDkMRoAu9bVjsNPKBQQExFiA MH/LvEqboPFe5Mg323DsrqgW7WJPZfjJ5OWh3KcGd7Kzb/Ed/OuhsjfzebDsCLf+jo Z2y3h21hX1f0r0znndE/gsvI3+7MfvcFNE3R9vJ3F6eSaoK3rYc9HAxpysQKCzq2nw XliTZNXkMCNQpYy6ormSrp00pDOW21OImF+xXBpjWC/JIXAZfq/wrXo3rh38peS5/g BQeri8Wl+fs0ihvm/Fcaw0vxpMvqk7Fkm7kctYIMuGKithMKv3Kd8J2NMAGsk2M1IJ Z8/9XzwZufeKA== Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 13:55:18 +0200 From: Mauro Carvalho Chehab To: David Woodhouse Cc: Linux Doc Mailing List , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Jonathan Corbet , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, coresight@lists.linaro.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-fpga@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input@vger.kernel.org, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, rcu@vger.kernel.org, x86@kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/53] Get rid of UTF-8 chars that can be mapped as ASCII Message-ID: <20210510135518.305cc03d@coco.lan> In-Reply-To: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> References: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org Hi David, Em Mon, 10 May 2021 11:54:02 +0100 David Woodhouse escreveu: > On Mon, 2021-05-10 at 12:26 +0200, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: > > There are several UTF-8 characters at the Kernel's documentation. > >=20 > > Several of them were due to the process of converting files from > > DocBook, LaTeX, HTML and Markdown. They were probably introduced > > by the conversion tools used on that time. > >=20 > > Other UTF-8 characters were added along the time, but they're easily > > replaceable by ASCII chars. > >=20 > > As Linux developers are all around the globe, and not everybody has UTF= -8 > > as their default charset, better to use UTF-8 only on cases where it is= really > > needed. =20 >=20 > No, that is absolutely the wrong approach. >=20 > If someone has a local setup which makes bogus assumptions about text > encodings, that is their own mistake. >=20 > We don't do them any favours by trying to *hide* it in the common case > so that they don't notice it for longer. >=20 > There really isn't much excuse for such brokenness, this far into the > 21st century. >=20 > Even *before* UTF-8 came along in the final decade of the last > millennium, it was important to know which character set a given piece > of text was encoded in. >=20 > In fact it was even *more* important back then, we couldn't just assume > UTF-8 everywhere like we can in modern times. >=20 > Git can already do things like CRLF conversion on checking files out to > match local conventions; if you want to teach it to do character set > conversions too then I suppose that might be useful to a few developers > who've fallen through a time warp and still need it. But nobody's ever > bothered before because it just isn't necessary these days. >=20 > Please *don't* attempt to address this anachronistic and esoteric > "requirement" by dragging the kernel source back in time by three > decades. No. The idea is not to go back three decades ago.=20 The goal is just to avoid use UTF-8 where it is not needed. See, the vast majority of UTF-8 chars are kept: - Non-ASCII Latin and Greek chars; - Box drawings; - arrows; - most symbols. There, it makes perfect sense to keep using UTF-8. We should keep using UTF-8 on Kernel. This is something that it shouldn't be changed. --- This patch series is doing conversion only when using ASCII makes more sense than using UTF-8.=20 See, a number of converted documents ended with weird characters like ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE (U+FEFF) character. This specific character doesn't do any good. Others use NO-BREAK SPACE (U+A0) instead of 0x20. Harmless, until someone tries to use grep[1]. [1] try to run: $ git grep "CPU 0 has been" Documentation/RCU/ it will return nothing with current upstream. But it will work fine after the series is applied: $ git grep "CPU 0 has been" Documentation/RCU/ Documentation/RCU/Design/Data-Structures/Data-Structures.rst:| #. CPU= 0 has been in dyntick-idle mode for quite some time. When it | Documentation/RCU/Design/Data-Structures/Data-Structures.rst:| not= ices that CPU 0 has been in dyntick idle mode, which qualifies | The main point on this series is to replace just the occurrences where ASCII represents the symbol equally well, e. g. it is limited for those chars: - U+2010 ('=E2=80=90'): HYPHEN - U+00ad ('=C2=AD'): SOFT HYPHEN - U+2013 ('=E2=80=93'): EN DASH - U+2014 ('=E2=80=94'): EM DASH - U+2018 ('=E2=80=98'): LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK - U+2019 ('=E2=80=99'): RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK - U+00b4 ('=C2=B4'): ACUTE ACCENT - U+201c ('=E2=80=9C'): LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK - U+201d ('=E2=80=9D'): RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK - U+00d7 ('=C3=97'): MULTIPLICATION SIGN - U+2212 ('=E2=88=92'): MINUS SIGN - U+2217 ('=E2=88=97'): ASTERISK OPERATOR (this one used as a pointer reference like "*foo" on C code example inside a document converted from LaTeX) - U+00bb ('=C2=BB'): RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK (this one also used wrongly on an ABI file, meaning '>') - U+00a0 ('=C2=A0'): NO-BREAK SPACE - U+feff ('=EF=BB=BF'): ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE Using the above symbols will just trick tools like grep for no good reason. Thanks, Mauro From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, USER_AGENT_SANE_2 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F82C433ED for ; Mon, 10 May 2021 12:05:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from desiato.infradead.org (desiato.infradead.org [90.155.92.199]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E03CD613C2 for ; Mon, 10 May 2021 12:05:53 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org E03CD613C2 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=kernel.org 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alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, coresight@lists.linaro.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-fpga@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input@vger.kernel.org, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, rcu@vger.kernel.org, x86@kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/53] Get rid of UTF-8 chars that can be mapped as ASCII Message-ID: <20210510135518.305cc03d@coco.lan> In-Reply-To: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> References: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20210510_045529_745898_34EB6113 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 31.65 ) X-BeenThere: linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: "linux-riscv" Errors-To: linux-riscv-bounces+linux-riscv=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org SGkgRGF2aWQsCgpFbSBNb24sIDEwIE1heSAyMDIxIDExOjU0OjAyICswMTAwCkRhdmlkIFdvb2Ro b3VzZSA8ZHdtdzJAaW5mcmFkZWFkLm9yZz4gZXNjcmV2ZXU6Cgo+IE9uIE1vbiwgMjAyMS0wNS0x MCBhdCAxMjoyNiArMDIwMCwgTWF1cm8gQ2FydmFsaG8gQ2hlaGFiIHdyb3RlOgo+ID4gVGhlcmUg 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MH/LvEqboPFe5Mg323DsrqgW7WJPZfjJ5OWh3KcGd7Kzb/Ed/OuhsjfzebDsCLf+jo Z2y3h21hX1f0r0znndE/gsvI3+7MfvcFNE3R9vJ3F6eSaoK3rYc9HAxpysQKCzq2nw XliTZNXkMCNQpYy6ormSrp00pDOW21OImF+xXBpjWC/JIXAZfq/wrXo3rh38peS5/g BQeri8Wl+fs0ihvm/Fcaw0vxpMvqk7Fkm7kctYIMuGKithMKv3Kd8J2NMAGsk2M1IJ Z8/9XzwZufeKA== Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 13:55:18 +0200 From: Mauro Carvalho Chehab To: David Woodhouse Message-ID: <20210510135518.305cc03d@coco.lan> In-Reply-To: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> References: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Headers-End: 1lg4Va-001aPb-Li Subject: Re: [f2fs-dev] [PATCH 00/53] Get rid of UTF-8 chars that can be mapped as ASCII X-BeenThere: linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, 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TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE3D5F800E9 for ; Mon, 10 May 2021 13:55:31 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 alsa1.perex.cz EE3D5F800E9 Authentication-Results: alsa1.perex.cz; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kernel.org header.i=@kernel.org header.b="S4cpkndG" Received: by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 383C061260; Mon, 10 May 2021 11:55:22 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1620647729; bh=dyIPtb49LgFnCoKazyq+bQhPSj3PCobNssG21KHdoK4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=S4cpkndG9UuTYGkhKfO3hJLbYIHDWve5Su3QQFRXInDkMRoAu9bVjsNPKBQQExFiA MH/LvEqboPFe5Mg323DsrqgW7WJPZfjJ5OWh3KcGd7Kzb/Ed/OuhsjfzebDsCLf+jo Z2y3h21hX1f0r0znndE/gsvI3+7MfvcFNE3R9vJ3F6eSaoK3rYc9HAxpysQKCzq2nw XliTZNXkMCNQpYy6ormSrp00pDOW21OImF+xXBpjWC/JIXAZfq/wrXo3rh38peS5/g BQeri8Wl+fs0ihvm/Fcaw0vxpMvqk7Fkm7kctYIMuGKithMKv3Kd8J2NMAGsk2M1IJ Z8/9XzwZufeKA== Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 13:55:18 +0200 From: Mauro Carvalho Chehab To: David Woodhouse Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/53] Get rid of UTF-8 chars that can be mapped as ASCII Message-ID: <20210510135518.305cc03d@coco.lan> In-Reply-To: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> References: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 10 May 2021 16:50:04 +0200 Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, Linux Doc Mailing List , linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, linux-fpga@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, Jonathan Corbet , linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, x86@kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, coresight@lists.linaro.org, rcu@vger.kernel.org, mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org X-BeenThere: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Alsa-devel mailing list for ALSA developers - http://www.alsa-project.org" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: alsa-devel-bounces@alsa-project.org Sender: "Alsa-devel" Hi David, Em Mon, 10 May 2021 11:54:02 +0100 David Woodhouse escreveu: > On Mon, 2021-05-10 at 12:26 +0200, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: > > There are several UTF-8 characters at the Kernel's documentation. > >=20 > > Several of them were due to the process of converting files from > > DocBook, LaTeX, HTML and Markdown. They were probably introduced > > by the conversion tools used on that time. > >=20 > > Other UTF-8 characters were added along the time, but they're easily > > replaceable by ASCII chars. > >=20 > > As Linux developers are all around the globe, and not everybody has UTF= -8 > > as their default charset, better to use UTF-8 only on cases where it is= really > > needed. =20 >=20 > No, that is absolutely the wrong approach. >=20 > If someone has a local setup which makes bogus assumptions about text > encodings, that is their own mistake. >=20 > We don't do them any favours by trying to *hide* it in the common case > so that they don't notice it for longer. >=20 > There really isn't much excuse for such brokenness, this far into the > 21st century. >=20 > Even *before* UTF-8 came along in the final decade of the last > millennium, it was important to know which character set a given piece > of text was encoded in. >=20 > In fact it was even *more* important back then, we couldn't just assume > UTF-8 everywhere like we can in modern times. >=20 > Git can already do things like CRLF conversion on checking files out to > match local conventions; if you want to teach it to do character set > conversions too then I suppose that might be useful to a few developers > who've fallen through a time warp and still need it. But nobody's ever > bothered before because it just isn't necessary these days. >=20 > Please *don't* attempt to address this anachronistic and esoteric > "requirement" by dragging the kernel source back in time by three > decades. No. The idea is not to go back three decades ago.=20 The goal is just to avoid use UTF-8 where it is not needed. See, the vast majority of UTF-8 chars are kept: - Non-ASCII Latin and Greek chars; - Box drawings; - arrows; - most symbols. There, it makes perfect sense to keep using UTF-8. We should keep using UTF-8 on Kernel. This is something that it shouldn't be changed. --- This patch series is doing conversion only when using ASCII makes more sense than using UTF-8.=20 See, a number of converted documents ended with weird characters like ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE (U+FEFF) character. This specific character doesn't do any good. Others use NO-BREAK SPACE (U+A0) instead of 0x20. Harmless, until someone tries to use grep[1]. [1] try to run: $ git grep "CPU 0 has been" Documentation/RCU/ it will return nothing with current upstream. But it will work fine after the series is applied: $ git grep "CPU 0 has been" Documentation/RCU/ Documentation/RCU/Design/Data-Structures/Data-Structures.rst:| #. CPU= 0 has been in dyntick-idle mode for quite some time. When it | Documentation/RCU/Design/Data-Structures/Data-Structures.rst:| not= ices that CPU 0 has been in dyntick idle mode, which qualifies | The main point on this series is to replace just the occurrences where ASCII represents the symbol equally well, e. g. it is limited for those chars: - U+2010 ('=E2=80=90'): HYPHEN - U+00ad ('=C2=AD'): SOFT HYPHEN - U+2013 ('=E2=80=93'): EN DASH - U+2014 ('=E2=80=94'): EM DASH - U+2018 ('=E2=80=98'): LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK - U+2019 ('=E2=80=99'): RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK - U+00b4 ('=C2=B4'): ACUTE ACCENT - U+201c ('=E2=80=9C'): LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK - U+201d ('=E2=80=9D'): RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK - U+00d7 ('=C3=97'): MULTIPLICATION SIGN - U+2212 ('=E2=88=92'): MINUS SIGN - U+2217 ('=E2=88=97'): ASTERISK OPERATOR (this one used as a pointer reference like "*foo" on C code example inside a document converted from LaTeX) - U+00bb ('=C2=BB'): RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK (this one also used wrongly on an ABI file, meaning '>') - U+00a0 ('=C2=A0'): NO-BREAK SPACE - U+feff ('=EF=BB=BF'): ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE Using the above symbols will just trick tools like grep for no good reason. 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Woodhouse Cc: Linux Doc Mailing List , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Jonathan Corbet , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, coresight@lists.linaro.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-fpga@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input@vger.kernel.org, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, rcu@vger.kernel.org, x86@kernel.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/53] Get rid of UTF-8 chars that can be mapped as ASCII Message-ID: <20210510135518.305cc03d@coco.lan> In-Reply-To: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> References: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20210510_045529_745898_34EB6113 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 31.65 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org SGkgRGF2aWQsCgpFbSBNb24sIDEwIE1heSAyMDIxIDExOjU0OjAyICswMTAwCkRhdmlkIFdvb2Ro b3VzZSA8ZHdtdzJAaW5mcmFkZWFkLm9yZz4gZXNjcmV2ZXU6Cgo+IE9uIE1vbiwgMjAyMS0wNS0x 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(Postfix) with ESMTPS id 698526E457; Mon, 10 May 2021 11:55:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 383C061260; Mon, 10 May 2021 11:55:22 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1620647729; bh=dyIPtb49LgFnCoKazyq+bQhPSj3PCobNssG21KHdoK4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=S4cpkndG9UuTYGkhKfO3hJLbYIHDWve5Su3QQFRXInDkMRoAu9bVjsNPKBQQExFiA MH/LvEqboPFe5Mg323DsrqgW7WJPZfjJ5OWh3KcGd7Kzb/Ed/OuhsjfzebDsCLf+jo Z2y3h21hX1f0r0znndE/gsvI3+7MfvcFNE3R9vJ3F6eSaoK3rYc9HAxpysQKCzq2nw XliTZNXkMCNQpYy6ormSrp00pDOW21OImF+xXBpjWC/JIXAZfq/wrXo3rh38peS5/g BQeri8Wl+fs0ihvm/Fcaw0vxpMvqk7Fkm7kctYIMuGKithMKv3Kd8J2NMAGsk2M1IJ Z8/9XzwZufeKA== Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 13:55:18 +0200 From: Mauro Carvalho Chehab To: David Woodhouse Message-ID: <20210510135518.305cc03d@coco.lan> In-Reply-To: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> References: <2ae366fdff4bd5910a2270823e8da70521c859af.camel@infradead.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 10 May 2021 14:05:26 +0000 Subject: Re: [Intel-gfx] [PATCH 00/53] Get rid of UTF-8 chars that can be mapped as ASCII X-BeenThere: intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Intel graphics driver community testing & development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, kvm@vger.kernel.org, Linux Doc Mailing List , linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, linux-fpga@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, Jonathan Corbet , linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, x86@kernel.org, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input@vger.kernel.org, linux-ext4@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, linux-pm@vger.kernel.org, linux-sgx@vger.kernel.org, coresight@lists.linaro.org, rcu@vger.kernel.org, mjpeg-users@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-edac@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-f2fs-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: intel-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "Intel-gfx" SGkgRGF2aWQsCgpFbSBNb24sIDEwIE1heSAyMDIxIDExOjU0OjAyICswMTAwCkRhdmlkIFdvb2Ro b3VzZSA8ZHdtdzJAaW5mcmFkZWFkLm9yZz4gZXNjcmV2ZXU6Cgo+IE9uIE1vbiwgMjAyMS0wNS0x MCBhdCAxMjoyNiArMDIwMCwgTWF1cm8gQ2FydmFsaG8gQ2hlaGFiIHdyb3RlOgo+ID4gVGhlcmUg YXJlIHNldmVyYWwgVVRGLTggY2hhcmFjdGVycyBhdCB0aGUgS2VybmVsJ3MgZG9jdW1lbnRhdGlv bi4KPiA+IAo+ID4gU2V2ZXJhbCBvZiB0aGVtIHdlcmUgZHVlIHRvIHRoZSBwcm9jZXNzIG9mIGNv 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escreveu: > On Mon, 2021-05-10 at 12:26 +0200, Mauro Carvalho Chehab wrote: > > There are several UTF-8 characters at the Kernel's documentation. > > > > Several of them were due to the process of converting files from > > DocBook, LaTeX, HTML and Markdown. They were probably introduced > > by the conversion tools used on that time. > > > > Other UTF-8 characters were added along the time, but they're easily > > replaceable by ASCII chars. > > > > As Linux developers are all around the globe, and not everybody has UTF-8 > > as their default charset, better to use UTF-8 only on cases where it is really > > needed. > > No, that is absolutely the wrong approach. > > If someone has a local setup which makes bogus assumptions about text > encodings, that is their own mistake. > > We don't do them any favours by trying to *hide* it in the common case > so that they don't notice it for longer. > > There really isn't much excuse for such brokenness, this far into the > 21st century. > > Even *before* UTF-8 came along in the final decade of the last > millennium, it was important to know which character set a given piece > of text was encoded in. > > In fact it was even *more* important back then, we couldn't just assume > UTF-8 everywhere like we can in modern times. > > Git can already do things like CRLF conversion on checking files out to > match local conventions; if you want to teach it to do character set > conversions too then I suppose that might be useful to a few developers > who've fallen through a time warp and still need it. But nobody's ever > bothered before because it just isn't necessary these days. > > Please *don't* attempt to address this anachronistic and esoteric > "requirement" by dragging the kernel source back in time by three > decades. No. The idea is not to go back three decades ago. The goal is just to avoid use UTF-8 where it is not needed. See, the vast majority of UTF-8 chars are kept: - Non-ASCII Latin and Greek chars; - Box drawings; - arrows; - most symbols. There, it makes perfect sense to keep using UTF-8. We should keep using UTF-8 on Kernel. This is something that it shouldn't be changed. --- This patch series is doing conversion only when using ASCII makes more sense than using UTF-8. See, a number of converted documents ended with weird characters like ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE (U+FEFF) character. This specific character doesn't do any good. Others use NO-BREAK SPACE (U+A0) instead of 0x20. Harmless, until someone tries to use grep[1]. [1] try to run: $ git grep "CPU 0 has been" Documentation/RCU/ it will return nothing with current upstream. But it will work fine after the series is applied: $ git grep "CPU 0 has been" Documentation/RCU/ Documentation/RCU/Design/Data-Structures/Data-Structures.rst:| #. CPU 0 has been in dyntick-idle mode for quite some time. When it | Documentation/RCU/Design/Data-Structures/Data-Structures.rst:| notices that CPU 0 has been in dyntick idle mode, which qualifies | The main point on this series is to replace just the occurrences where ASCII represents the symbol equally well, e. g. it is limited for those chars: - U+2010 ('?'): HYPHEN - U+00ad ('?'): SOFT HYPHEN - U+2013 ('?'): EN DASH - U+2014 ('?'): EM DASH - U+2018 ('?'): LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK - U+2019 ('?'): RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK - U+00b4 ('?'): ACUTE ACCENT - U+201c ('?'): LEFT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK - U+201d ('?'): RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK - U+00d7 ('?'): MULTIPLICATION SIGN - U+2212 ('?'): MINUS SIGN - U+2217 ('?'): ASTERISK OPERATOR (this one used as a pointer reference like "*foo" on C code example inside a document converted from LaTeX) - U+00bb ('?'): RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK (this one also used wrongly on an ABI file, meaning '>') - U+00a0 ('?'): NO-BREAK SPACE - U+feff ('?'): ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE Using the above symbols will just trick tools like grep for no good reason. Thanks, Mauro