From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1467FC48BCF for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2021 16:48:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC27E613AE for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2021 16:48:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S230029AbhFIQuO (ORCPT ); Wed, 9 Jun 2021 12:50:14 -0400 Received: from mail.kernel.org ([198.145.29.99]:42514 "EHLO mail.kernel.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229504AbhFIQuO (ORCPT ); Wed, 9 Jun 2021 12:50:14 -0400 Received: by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5E22D613C7; Wed, 9 Jun 2021 16:48:19 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1623257299; bh=hHxaS0PsHl0aV79Af27WsPfXn9a5Kv7gST9ycrsXUy8=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=MYEcht6K+HpkclU45W88qEiWG3ymrqGxG9fB3rG5YgdwGPSIHs6bSLlO8zzK26lAi yFnBgsAB9xrUUjgUQ4jcfdVK7aXOAEQYYaAwaQ4o3A8PogZTgVfjgNuYwd252KRco5 szUagbD5RS9IZBOirQ7jSbM+420RzuJiFZd135UL0L8e90iodAvDjkTw/qpkf3SfnR Qlj/dEH6XrqJkNMO8n6XJw8K2pq5/IEi3arUJghERuoT31R5+7xe91D6b2Mb411JDv V5aMRhEckyipSQhFxEk7+G5je1W5wijrZngpajK8+CbsnhG08S74KjY+ZXiAVPW3/8 rSHtKOQYrMgJg== Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2021 09:48:18 -0700 From: Jakub Kicinski To: Stephen Hemminger Cc: Alexander Aring , Stefan Metzmacher , Steve French , =?UTF-8?B?QXVyw6ls?= =?UTF-8?B?aWVu?= Aptel , Network Development , linux-nfs , CIFS , Leif Sahlberg , Steven Whitehouse Subject: Re: quic in-kernel implementation? Message-ID: <20210609094818.7aaf21bd@kicinski-fedora-PC1C0HJN.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <20210608153349.0f02ba71@hermes.local> References: <87pmwxsjxm.fsf@suse.com> <35352ef0-86ed-aaa5-4a49-b2b08dc3674d@samba.org> <20210608153349.0f02ba71@hermes.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 15:33:49 -0700 Stephen Hemminger wrote: > On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 17:03:16 -0400 > > > With having the fuse-like socket before it should be trivial to switch > > > between the implementations. > > > > So a good starting point would be to have such a "fuse-like socket" > > component? What about having a simple example for that at first > > without having quic involved. The kernel calls some POSIX-like socket > > interface which triggers a communication to a user space application. > > This user space application will then map everything to a user space > > generated socket. This would be a map from socket struct > > "proto/proto_ops" to user space and vice versa. The kernel application > > probably can use the kernel_FOO() (e.g. kernel_recvmsg()) socket api > > directly then. Exactly like "fuse" as you mentioned just for sockets. > > > > I think two veth interfaces can help to test something like that, > > either with a "fuse-like socket" on the other end or an user space > > application. Just doing a ping-pong example. > > > > Afterwards we can look at how to replace the user generated socket > > application with any $LIBQUIC e.g. msquic implementation as second > > step. > > Socket state management is complex and timers etc in userspace are hard. +1 seeing the struggles fuse causes in storage land "fuse for sockets" is not an exciting temporary solution IMHO..