Re: [PATCH 00/28] Initial implementation of bootmethod/bootflow

From: Tom Rini <trini@konsulko.com>
To: Mark Kettenis <mark.kettenis@xs4all.nl>
Cc: takahiro.akashi@linaro.org, sjg@chromium.org,
	manu@bidouilliste.com, u-boot@lists.denx.de,
	ilias.apalodimas@linaro.org, jaeckel-floss@eyet-services.de,
	michal.simek@xilinx.com, dennis@ausil.us,
	daniel.schwierzeck@gmail.com, lukas.auer@aisec.fraunhofer.de,
	jh80.chung@samsung.com, mbrugger@suse.com, peng.fan@nxp.com,
	swarren@nvidia.com, swarren@wwwdotorg.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/28] Initial implementation of bootmethod/bootflow
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 18:06:05 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20210825220605.GB858@bill-the-cat> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <56141a22c6ddf02a@bloch.sibelius.xs4all.nl>

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On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 11:54:58PM +0200, Mark Kettenis wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:56:35 -0400
> > From: Tom Rini <trini@konsulko.com>
> > 
> > On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 11:42:51PM +0900, AKASHI Takahiro wrote:
> > > Simon,
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 07:11:44AM -0600, Simon Glass wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > 
> > > > On Wed, 25 Aug 2021 at 04:45, Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 24 Aug 2021 12:22:42 +0200 (CEST)
> > > > > Mark Kettenis <mark.kettenis@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:01:46 -0400
> > > > > > > From: Tom Rini <trini@konsulko.com>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 11:25:42AM -0600, Simon Glass wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi Mark,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 05:54, Mark Kettenis <mark.kettenis@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > From: Simon Glass <sjg@chromium.org>
> > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 21:45:33 -0600
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bootmethod and bootflow provide a built-in way for U-Boot to automatically boot
> > > > > > > > > > an Operating System without custom scripting and other customisation:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >   - bootmethod - a method to scan a device to find bootflows (owned by U-Boot)
> > > > > > > > > >   - bootflow - a description of how to boot (owned by the distro)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This series provides an initial implementation of these, enable to scan
> > > > > > > > > > for bootflows from MMC and Ethernet. The only bootflow supported is
> > > > > > > > > > distro boot, i.e. an extlinux.conf file included on a filesystem or
> > > > > > > > > > tftp server. It works similiarly to the existing script-based approach,
> > > > > > > > > > but is native to U-Boot.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > With this we can boot on a Raspberry Pi 3 with just one command:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    bootflow scan -lb
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > which means to scan, listing (-l) each bootflow and trying to boot each
> > > > > > > > > > one (-b). The final patch shows this.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It is intended that this approach be expanded to support mechanisms other
> > > > > > > > > > than distro boot, including EFI-related ones. With a standard way to
> > > > > > > > > > identify boot devices, these features become easier. It also should
> > > > > > > > > > support U-Boot scripts, for backwards compatibility only.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The first patch of this series moves boot-related code out of common/ and
> > > > > > > > > > into a new boot/ directory. This helps to collect these related files
> > > > > > > > > > in one place, as common/ is quite large.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Like sysboot, this feature makes use of the existing PXE implementation.
> > > > > > > > > > Much of this series consists of cleaning up that code and refactoring it
> > > > > > > > > > into something closer to a module that can be called, teasing apart its
> > > > > > > > > > reliance on the command-line interpreter to access filesystems and the
> > > > > > > > > > like. Also it now uses function arguments and its own context struct
> > > > > > > > > > internally rather than environment variables, which is very hard to
> > > > > > > > > > follow. No core functional change is included in the included PXE patches.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > For documentation, see the 'doc' patch.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There is quite a long list of future work included in the documentation.
> > > > > > > > > > One question is the choice of naming. Since this is a bootloader, should
> > > > > > > > > > we just call this a 'method' and a 'flow' ? The 'boot' prefix is already
> > > > > > > > > > shared by other commands like bootm, booti, etc.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The design is described here:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ggW0KJpUOR__vBkj3l61L2dav4ZkNC12/view?usp=sharing
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The series is available at u-boot-dm/bmea-working
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > How does the user control the order in which devices are scanned/booted?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That is not supported in distroboot at present, at least so far as I
> > > > > > > > can see. For Fedora it seems to happen in grub. Do I have that right?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well, there's "find the next stage", which is boot_targets environment
> > > > > > > variable, and then "where that next stage looks for stuff" which is
> > > > > > > OS-dependent.  Sometimes the ESP grub.cfg file is just enough to tell
> > > > > > > grub to find the full grub.cfg file elsewhere, and sometimes it's a full
> > > > > > > grub.cfg file.  I think Mark is talking about the former, and you've
> > > > > > > said it's not part of this series, yet, but on the TODO list.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Right.  With the current distroboot code the order of the devices that
> > > > > > appears in boot_targets is determined by per-board/SOC/machine config
> > > > > > files and the order isn't the same for all of them.  Users can change
> > > > > > the order if necessary by modifying the environment variable and
> > > > > > saving the environment.  And for a one-off boot from a different
> > > > > > device they can simply run an appropriate boot command.  The
> > > > > > boot_targets variable in particular is documented in various install
> > > > > > documents so it would probably be good of the new "bootmethod" code
> > > > > > would respect this variable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For OpenBSD I'm not really interested in the bootflow part.  As I
> > > > > > explained in the past, that part of the problem is solved in a
> > > > > > (mostly) uniform way across platforms by the OpenBSD bootloader which
> > > > > > can read an /etc/boot.conf that allows bootflow customization.  So as
> > > > > > long as the default of the new code still results in
> > > > > > \EFI\BOOT\BOOT{machine type short-name}.EFI being loaded and run if
> > > > > > there is no U-Boot specific bootflow configured, I'm happy.
> > > > >
> > > > >  Mostly the same for FreeBSD, as long as the efi boot<arch>.efi is
> > > > > loaded and run by default (respecting the boot_targets order) we will
> > > > > be fine.
> > > > 
> > > > OK thanks for the info. My expectation is that bootmethod/bootflow can
> > > > support this easily enough (it is actually simpler than distro boot).
> > > > 
> > > > >
> > > > > > I can't speak for the other BSDs, but my impression is that they are
> > > > > > pretty much in the same position.  The FreeBSD bootloader for example
> > > > > > supports a high-degree of "bootflow" customization and I doubt that
> > > > > > taking it out of the loop is a viable option for most users.
> > > > 
> > > > I think the same may happen with grub. E.g. with Ubuntu I see quite a
> > > > bit of code in the grub.cfg file and it's not clear to me that it can
> > > > be replaced with a 'data instead of code' approach. Still, a valid
> > > > bootflow is simply to jump to an EFI app, which seems to be what is
> > > > happening here. The bootflow side is really just about describing what
> > > > to do, and this case is no different. For now I see three types of
> > > > bootflow, PXE/syslinux, EFI boot manager and EFI app.
> > > 
> > > By "EFI app", do you mean a way of booting "/efi/boot/bootXX.efi"
> > > (default file name in case that no image path is specified)?
> > > 
> > > In fact, this behavior, or removable media support, is defined
> > > as part of UEFI boot manager in UEFI specification. (See section 3.5)
> > > What this means is that the boot order, including a removable media
> > > case and user-provided BootXXXX cases, should be controlled solely
> > > by "BootOrder" variable.
> > > So the current combination of distro_bootcmd + UEFI boot manger doesn't
> > > fully comply with the specification.
> > > 
> > > Even if those two cases are integrated, I don't know how "BootOrder"
> > > semantics can be preserved in your approach.
> > 
> > I think the high level answer is that whereas today part of
> > distro_bootcmd (and so iterating over boot_targets) "bootefi bootmgr"
> > gets run, with what Simon is proposing we would have an easier / quicker
> > way to get over to just running that.  Perhaps a clean-up to just use
> > that, even?  Or are we not to the point yet where we could remove the
> > direct fall-back to /efi/boot/bootXX.efi ?
> 
> I think "bootefi bootmgr" only works if the BootOrder variable is
> defined, and currently that isn't the case.
> 
> The boot manager behaviour as specified in the UEFI specification is
> somewhat problematic to implement in U-Boot because of the limitations
> in how variables can be set at runtime.  This is one of the reasons
> OpenBSD doesn't actually bother with setting the variables and simple
> relies on the "removable media" support mentioned above.  All my
> OpenBSD systems that use U-Boot print the follwing lines:
> 
>   BootOrder not defined
>   EFI boot manager: Cannot load any image
>   Found EFI removable media binary efi/boot/bootaa64.efi
> 
> But maybe that last step can be intgrated into bootefi bootmgr at some
> point?
> 
> Also note that manually manipulating the EFI variables to change the
> boot order is quite cumbersome; it isn't a matter of just changed the
> aforementioned BootOrder variable.  That's why I think boot_targets is
> the preferable way to define the order in which devices should be
> booted.  I don't think that violates the UEFI specification.  It
> merely is the way U-Boot implements the boot device selection that
> more traditional UEFI implementations implement using a menu.

As I don't want to side-track Simon's thread even further, I would like
to see a bit more detailed explanation of why U-Boot cannot support EFI
variables, or if it's just a matter of someone doing the work, and it's
not been a priority yet.

-- 
Tom

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