From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.5 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B340AC433F5 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 04:13:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE7360F02 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 04:13:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S231193AbhIVEPY (ORCPT ); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 00:15:24 -0400 Received: from mail.kernel.org ([198.145.29.99]:56896 "EHLO mail.kernel.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229495AbhIVEPY (ORCPT ); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 00:15:24 -0400 Received: by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E144C61131; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 04:13:54 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1632284035; bh=8D1IagfIKZeKbgZvrNFVsValHcrqDaHRd1Ma/26N9ac=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=EtPhBWn41/0ih90TiHFm4j+Xd743V8njMjzEngPPd3WAdmt305OyTGs4VJRQTe9hG b8rkay02SczcNowdnMj/lBr7JtzNO1RewwMPMFcR9pyCWU80s0zniAsyXfxbkfnrbF 0O+gyIO3aBlG5JiT0ET9JmkIgbfKw+c9M4brc9jsy7L65V+BeOC2fXqR7Cyxa+vr56 H4/tDCkEE2eqhGw7cPIiRUsVBb1YN6HkQz7koY1nsBalzlyCe5pGZAaDm9t4NJHQt9 9HcNKjEeVngs0MQHZN9oRx/h+guvmibU9rMsEwWnRIH/FWu+OpkcVEzMp7c69j7BkN 1igj5DGbzNqoQ== Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:13:54 -0700 From: "Darrick J. Wong" To: Dave Chinner Cc: Dan Williams , Christoph Hellwig , Jane Chu , linux-xfs , linux-fsdevel Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/5] vfs: add a zero-initialization mode to fallocate Message-ID: <20210922041354.GE570615@magnolia> References: <163192864476.417973.143014658064006895.stgit@magnolia> <163192866125.417973.7293598039998376121.stgit@magnolia> <20210921004431.GO1756565@dread.disaster.area> <20210922023801.GD570615@magnolia> <20210922035907.GR1756565@dread.disaster.area> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20210922035907.GR1756565@dread.disaster.area> Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 01:59:07PM +1000, Dave Chinner wrote: > On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 07:38:01PM -0700, Darrick J. Wong wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 07:16:26PM -0700, Dan Williams wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 1:32 AM Christoph Hellwig wrote: > > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 10:44:31AM +1000, Dave Chinner wrote: > > > > > I think this wants to be a behavioural modifier for existing > > > > > operations rather than an operation unto itself. i.e. similar to how > > > > > KEEP_SIZE modifies ALLOC behaviour but doesn't fundamentally alter > > > > > the guarantees ALLOC provides userspace. > > > > > > > > > > In this case, the change of behaviour over ZERO_RANGE is that we > > > > > want physical zeros to be written instead of the filesystem > > > > > optimising away the physical zeros by manipulating the layout > > > > > of the file. > > > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > > > > Then we have and API that looks like: > > > > > > > > > > ALLOC - allocate space efficiently > > > > > ALLOC | INIT - allocate space by writing zeros to it > > > > > ZERO - zero data and preallocate space efficiently > > > > > ZERO | INIT - zero range by writing zeros to it > > > > > > > > > > Which seems to cater for all the cases I know of where physically > > > > > writing zeros instead of allocating unwritten extents is the > > > > > preferred behaviour of fallocate().... > > > > > > > > Agreed. I'm not sure INIT is really the right name, but I can't come > > > > up with a better idea offhand. > > > > > > FUA? As in, this is a forced-unit-access zeroing all the way to media > > > bypassing any mechanisms to emulate zero-filled payloads on future > > > reads. > > Yes, that's the semantic we want, but FUA already defines specific > data integrity behaviour in the storage stack w.r.t. volatile > caches. > > Also, FUA is associated with devices - it's low level storage jargon > and so is not really appropriate to call a user interface operation > FUA where users have no idea what a "unit" or "access" actually > means. > > Hence we should not overload this name with some other operation > that does not have (and should not have) explicit data integrity > requirements. That will just cause confusion for everyone. > > > FALLOC_FL_ZERO_EXISTING, because you want to zero the storage that > > already exists at that file range? > > IMO that doesn't work as a behavioural modifier for ALLOC because > the ALLOC semantics are explicitly "don't touch existing user > data"... Well since you can't preallocate /and/ zerorange at the same time... /* For FALLOC_FL_ZERO_RANGE, write zeroes to pre-existing mapped storage. */ #define FALLOC_FL_ZERO_EXISTING (0x80) /* For preallocation, allocate written extents and set the contents to * zeroes. */ #define FALLOC_FL_ALLOC_WRITE_ZEROES (0x80) --D > > Cheers, > > Dave. > -- > Dave Chinner > david@fromorbit.com