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Hou" , Kurt Kanzenbach , Rasmus Villemoes Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH devicetree 00/10] Do something about ls-extirq interrupt-map breakage Thread-Topic: [RFC PATCH devicetree 00/10] Do something about ls-extirq interrupt-map breakage Thread-Index: AQHX8ItO3xtQxxPJV0yONti9mp5846wxrpCAgAASv4CAAAYSAIAAAr6A Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 10:30:26 +0000 Message-ID: <20211214103025.wnzkfxr5xxeuhpln@skbuf> References: <20211214013800.2703568-1-vladimir.oltean@nxp.com> <87ilvrk1r0.wl-maz@kernel.org> <20211214095853.4emzycaxkuqr4tun@skbuf> <87czlzjxmz.wl-maz@kernel.org> In-Reply-To: <87czlzjxmz.wl-maz@kernel.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=nxp.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f9199fa3-80b5-4850-3971-08d9beecbe37 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: VI1PR0401MB2685:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nxp.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: VI1PR04MB5136.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f9199fa3-80b5-4850-3971-08d9beecbe37 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Dec 2021 10:30:26.1860 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 686ea1d3-bc2b-4c6f-a92c-d99c5c301635 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ZTIrXRmx7PkYNrvrnntRUzFKzA3Z0Bls7uPa+MnlPIDFMZK8990DEbJtcGzeF9Uno2OQLY2TpWtCvxDmKZCqRg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR0401MB2685 Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 10:20:36AM +0000, Marc Zyngier wrote: > On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 09:58:54 +0000, > Vladimir Oltean wrote: > >=20 > > Hi Marc (with a c), > >=20 > > I wish the firmware for these SoCs was smart enough to be compatible > > with the bindings that are in the kernel and provide a blob that the > > kernel could actually use. Some work has been started there and this is > > work in progress. True, I don't know what other OF-based firmware some > > other customers may use, but I trust it isn't a lot more advanced than > > what U-Boot currently has :) > >=20 > > Also, the machines may have been in the wild for years, but the > > ls-extirq driver was added in November 2019. So not with the > > introduction of the SoC device trees themselves. That isn't so long ago= . > >=20 > > As for compatibility between old kernel and new DT: I guess you'll hear > > various opinions on this one. > > https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-mips/msg07778.html > >=20 > > | > Are we okay with the new device tree blobs breaking the old kernel? > > | > > | From my point of view, newer device trees are not required to work on > > | older kernel, this would impose an unreasonable limitation and the us= e > > | case is very limited. >=20 > My views are on the opposite side. DT is an ABI, full stop. If you > change something, you *must* guarantee forward *and* backward > compatibility. That's because: >=20 > - you don't control how updatable the firmware is >=20 > - people may need to revert to other versions of the kernel because > the new one is broken >=20 > - there are plenty of DT users beyond Linux, and we are not creating > bindings for Linux only. >=20 > You may disagree with this, but for the subsystems I maintain, this is > the rule I intent to stick to. That's an honorable set of guiding principles, but how do you apply them here? Reverting Rob's change won't fix the past, and updating the code to account for one format will break the other. As for trying one format, and if there's an error try the other, there may be situations in which you accept invalid input as valid.= From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from bombadil.infradead.org (bombadil.infradead.org [198.137.202.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3378C433EF for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 10:32:17 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=bombadil.20210309; h=Sender: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post: List-Archive:List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:MIME-Version:Content-ID:In-Reply-To: References:Message-ID:Date:Subject:CC:To:From:Reply-To:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: List-Owner; bh=oHmmFbdkCJl/etjLS2i/nDzIhUYPFF5HMXdYh2VbmWo=; b=EYR3IZb2Fg1dOk XcZ5z0jvOXInziOojYpf5XiYw02zsMdLkTvi9Fft7mI+R76QATYba8GPN2v8IaMk746E0OynssXPe IhdVGsVgxUEv1UXssCCMEvbmQiryJEcnPBd45Nq7kMmSyr38/pxkoUuiGFhBqw+p06572eK2K1k2a gR6QDtKE5TMNZb3MeeYM/CnPPg8XuLeMSl97FMbgcIQUVq3M6zYE7g9WwQy2cpXr5KCQ3kbRTGtvT PVZFJofP8beWNxXV+bx4xLNYZRHNwwdF04NlgWbbV29ksCzOLVKBYQZ7XH6K3Ku+8drnup7uMYHne yevn5cT+gUsjJN7K8aCA==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=bombadil.infradead.org) by bombadil.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.94.2 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1mx54s-00DTGS-07; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 10:30:34 +0000 Received: from mail-am6eur05on20631.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([2a01:111:f400:7e1b::631] helo=EUR05-AM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by bombadil.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.94.2 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1mx54o-00DTEw-1m for linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 10:30:31 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=eyyPYa0yqAcMtRwP+PAglwBhdpj7pkGRtbSqbpkVxGg8MGhM0ZJ8nioOMOHHlpxTR0Zr+Cr2Lk+wzaKHS/QC9VMyR3OORndQPFEkrzBXU/3sdiBHOtY+9Jm8n/rqqsfokGQwAnU6QEjLdrKwGp/ciOm1R20dOAiknVs80mefbwqhMs7TjzqvHVnD5apW2yQS6rkMQ1HzE12b3fKes7grInGY7213vL5sy/67uPDMmV4KeekYSxY3Q0TZW2/Ny2rfp0DMKLlRmt2LDkjasksbivMA4jslm0XgReOj0T9A3gJHfS2kEyx/P4iFawb4oXaj6kAfSgCeVvHFMtRYRNqx4w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=/64Uy3juV+qnk6LeWEansb+2rFQk+/1mdbp6lylSgkA=; b=YXjXaBhvHj6T8VSHgMnbv6sZPAUbGAyBIUO/XwSlNaiBc7V/dBV9kXWfeDG3ZzBADXqRCV+2qMOl1noSRUMzK16aPrO3DvuaalFxKBqSeb1lzuzsOecjmTZE93aXbGVzTQF1lRDnzcPYnIT6qizJQlDGFdfzDzYkbq9k3r38RyKWZw3u/y8iJ6Q1hjDudakouEADgWHnHCfVUKqYrgzCNYtaEII99lM7mhsrhE+9t/eZOkJmrfxJmCBcPTfJvCPDhCxcXqS2FJLY7bUanWmc4rokbkxlBhbPlB4HaU7yfTTKXlywh2MeZcRsrVmKQD2SnqSt9Yjt8O6q50PfPcpOfw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nxp.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nxp.com; dkim=pass header.d=nxp.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nxp.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=/64Uy3juV+qnk6LeWEansb+2rFQk+/1mdbp6lylSgkA=; b=hFOFF/KqiXwsF7/e75bAuKG+YhIVwPAuYYkoGVYqKPwcgfjenXkrPwbtmjBpJNu4CzgspTAwnWYaXhWlOIe/eLUgXmQZKk4poOBU+Ls3u8sAPZdd41ZJyRx4qmY88h4kGLyEdGoA+ZpdfIKfakKyjWzlgBwAhzTm/gR5wBvzOAQ= Received: from VI1PR04MB5136.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:803:55::19) by VI1PR0401MB2685.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:800:58::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4778.16; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 10:30:26 +0000 Received: from VI1PR04MB5136.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c84:1f0b:cc79:9226]) by VI1PR04MB5136.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c84:1f0b:cc79:9226%3]) with mapi id 15.20.4755.028; Tue, 14 Dec 2021 10:30:26 +0000 From: Vladimir Oltean To: Marc Zyngier CC: "devicetree@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org" , Rob Herring , Shawn Guo , Leo Li , Biwen Li , "Z.Q. Hou" , Kurt Kanzenbach , Rasmus Villemoes Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH devicetree 00/10] Do something about ls-extirq interrupt-map breakage Thread-Topic: [RFC PATCH devicetree 00/10] Do something about ls-extirq interrupt-map breakage Thread-Index: AQHX8ItO3xtQxxPJV0yONti9mp5846wxrpCAgAASv4CAAAYSAIAAAr6A Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2021 10:30:26 +0000 Message-ID: <20211214103025.wnzkfxr5xxeuhpln@skbuf> References: <20211214013800.2703568-1-vladimir.oltean@nxp.com> <87ilvrk1r0.wl-maz@kernel.org> <20211214095853.4emzycaxkuqr4tun@skbuf> <87czlzjxmz.wl-maz@kernel.org> In-Reply-To: <87czlzjxmz.wl-maz@kernel.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=nxp.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f9199fa3-80b5-4850-3971-08d9beecbe37 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: VI1PR0401MB2685:EE_ x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 10:20:36AM +0000, Marc Zyngier wrote: > On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 09:58:54 +0000, > Vladimir Oltean wrote: > > > > Hi Marc (with a c), > > > > I wish the firmware for these SoCs was smart enough to be compatible > > with the bindings that are in the kernel and provide a blob that the > > kernel could actually use. Some work has been started there and this is > > work in progress. True, I don't know what other OF-based firmware some > > other customers may use, but I trust it isn't a lot more advanced than > > what U-Boot currently has :) > > > > Also, the machines may have been in the wild for years, but the > > ls-extirq driver was added in November 2019. So not with the > > introduction of the SoC device trees themselves. That isn't so long ago. > > > > As for compatibility between old kernel and new DT: I guess you'll hear > > various opinions on this one. > > https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-mips/msg07778.html > > > > | > Are we okay with the new device tree blobs breaking the old kernel? > > | > > | From my point of view, newer device trees are not required to work on > > | older kernel, this would impose an unreasonable limitation and the use > > | case is very limited. > > My views are on the opposite side. DT is an ABI, full stop. If you > change something, you *must* guarantee forward *and* backward > compatibility. That's because: > > - you don't control how updatable the firmware is > > - people may need to revert to other versions of the kernel because > the new one is broken > > - there are plenty of DT users beyond Linux, and we are not creating > bindings for Linux only. > > You may disagree with this, but for the subsystems I maintain, this is > the rule I intent to stick to. That's an honorable set of guiding principles, but how do you apply them here? Reverting Rob's change won't fix the past, and updating the code to account for one format will break the other. As for trying one format, and if there's an error try the other, there may be situations in which you accept invalid input as valid. _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel