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From: Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>
To: Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>
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Subject: Re: [PATCH 02/32] Introduce flexible array struct memcpy() helpers
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 08:38:13 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <202205040819.DEA70BD@keescook> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <d3b73d80f66325fdfaf2d1f00ea97ab3db03146a.camel@sipsolutions.net>

On Wed, May 04, 2022 at 09:25:56AM +0200, Johannes Berg wrote:
> On Tue, 2022-05-03 at 18:44 -0700, Kees Cook wrote:
> > 
> > For example, using the most complicated helper, mem_to_flex_dup():
> > 
> >     /* Flexible array struct with members identified. */
> >     struct something {
> >         int mode;
> >         DECLARE_FLEX_ARRAY_ELEMENTS_COUNT(int, how_many);
> >         unsigned long flags;
> >         DECLARE_FLEX_ARRAY_ELEMENTS(u32, value);
> 
> In many cases, the order of the elements doesn't really matter, so maybe
> it'd be nicer to be able to write it as something like
> 
> DECLARE_FLEX_STRUCT(something,
> 	int mode;
> 	unsigned long flags;
> 	,
> 	int, how_many,
> 	u32, value);
> 
> perhaps? OK, that doesn't seem so nice either.
> 
> Maybe
> 
> struct something {
> 	int mode;
> 	unsigned long flags;
> 	FLEX_ARRAY(
> 		int, how_many,
> 		u32, value
> 	);
> };

Yeah, I mention some of my exploration of this idea in the sibling reply:
https://lore.kernel.org/linux-hardening/202205040730.161645EC@keescook/#t

It seemed like requiring a structure be rearranged to take advantage of
the "automatic layout introspection" wasn't very friendly. On the other
hand, looking at the examples, most of them are already neighboring
members. Hmmm.

> or so? The long and duplicated DECLARE_FLEX_ARRAY_ELEMENTS_COUNT and
> DECLARE_FLEX_ARRAY_ELEMENTS seems a bit tedious to me, at least in cases
> where the struct layout is not the most important thing (or it's already
> at the end anyway).

The names aren't great, but I wanted to distinguish "elements" as the
array not the count. Yay naming.

However, perhaps the solution is to have _both_. i.e using
BOUNDED_FLEX_ARRAY(count_type, count_name, array_type, array_name) for
the "neighboring" case, and the DECLARE...{ELEMENTS,COUNT} for the
"split" case.

And DECLARE_FLEX_ARRAY_ELEMENTS could actually be expanded to include
the count_name too, so both methods could be "forward portable" to a
future where C grew the syntax for bounded flex arrays.

> 
> >     struct something *instance = NULL;
> >     int rc;
> > 
> >     rc = mem_to_flex_dup(&instance, byte_array, count, GFP_KERNEL);
> >     if (rc)
> >         return rc;
> 
> This seems rather awkward, having to set it to NULL, then checking rc
> (and possibly needing a separate variable for it), etc.

I think the errno return is completely required. I had an earlier version
of this that was much more like a drop-in replacement for memcpy that
would just truncate or panic, and when I had it all together, I could
just imagine hearing Linus telling me to start over because it was unsafe
(truncation may be just as bad as overflow) and disruptive ("never BUG"),
and that it should be recoverable. So, I rewrote it all to return a
__must_check errno.

Requiring instance to be NULL is debatable, but I feel pretty strongly
about it because it does handle a class of mistakes (resource leaks),
and it's not much of a burden to require a known-good starting state.

> But I can understand how you arrived at this:
>  - need to pass instance or &instance or such for typeof()
>    or offsetof() or such

Right.

>  - instance = mem_to_flex_dup(instance, ...)
>    looks too much like it would actually dup 'instance', rather than
>    'byte_array'

And I need an errno output to keep imaginary Linus happy. :)

>  - if you pass &instance anyway, checking for NULL is simple and adds a
>    bit of safety

Right.

> but still, honestly, I don't like it. As APIs go, it feels a bit
> cumbersome and awkward to use, and you really need everyone to use this,
> and not say "uh what, I'll memcpy() instead".

Sure, and I have tried to get it down as small as possible. The earlier
"just put all the member names in every call" version was horrid. :P I
realize it's more work to check errno, but the memcpy() API we've all
been trained to use is just plain dangerous. I don't think it's
unreasonable to ask people to retrain themselves to avoid it. All that
said, yes, I want it to be as friendly as possible.

> Maybe there should also be a realloc() version of it?

Sure! Seems reasonable. I'd like to see the code pattern for this
though. Do you have any examples? Most of what I'd been able to find for
the fragile memcpy() usage was just basic serialize/deserialize or
direct copying.

> > +/** __fas_bytes - Calculate potential size of flexible array structure
> 
> I think you forgot "\n *" in many cases here after "/**".

Oops! Yes, thank you. I'll fix these.

-Kees

-- 
Kees Cook

  reply	other threads:[~2022-05-04 15:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 71+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-05-04  1:44 [PATCH 00/32] Introduce flexible array struct memcpy() helpers Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 01/32] netlink: Avoid memcpy() across flexible array boundary Kees Cook
2022-05-04  3:12   ` Introduce flexible array struct memcpy() helpers bluez.test.bot
2022-05-04  3:31   ` [PATCH 01/32] netlink: Avoid memcpy() across flexible array boundary Gustavo A. R. Silva
2022-05-04  3:37     ` Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 02/32] Introduce flexible array struct memcpy() helpers Kees Cook
2022-05-04  7:25   ` Johannes Berg
2022-05-04 15:38     ` Kees Cook [this message]
2022-05-04 16:08       ` David Laight
2022-05-05 13:16       ` Johannes Berg
2022-05-05 15:16         ` Keith Packard
2022-05-05 19:32           ` Kees Cook
2022-05-05 20:08             ` Keith Packard
2022-05-05 20:12               ` Johannes Berg
2022-05-06 11:15                 ` David Laight
2022-05-06 11:15                   ` David Laight
2022-05-05 19:27         ` Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 03/32] flex_array: Add Kunit tests Kees Cook
2022-05-04  3:00   ` David Gow
2022-05-04 19:43     ` Kees Cook
2022-05-04 19:58   ` Daniel Latypov
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 04/32] fortify: Add run-time WARN for cross-field memcpy() Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 05/32] brcmfmac: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct brcmf_fweh_queue_item Kees Cook
2022-05-16 12:49   ` Arend van Spriel
2022-05-17  3:57     ` Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 06/32] iwlwifi: calib: Prepare to use mem_to_flex_dup() Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 07/32] iwlwifi: calib: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct iwl_calib_result Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 08/32] iwlwifi: mvm: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct ieee80211_key_conf Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 09/32] p54: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct p54_cal_database Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 10/32] wcn36xx: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct wcn36xx_hal_ind_msg Kees Cook
2022-05-04  5:42   ` Kalle Valo
2022-05-04 15:08     ` Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 11/32] nl80211: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct cfg80211_cqm_config Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 12/32] cfg80211: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct cfg80211_bss_ies Kees Cook
2022-05-04  7:28   ` Johannes Berg
2022-05-04 15:13     ` Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 13/32] mac80211: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with several structs Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 14/32] af_unix: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct unix_address Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 15/32] 802/garp: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct garp_attr Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 16/32] 802/mrp: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct mrp_attr Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 17/32] net/flow_offload: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct flow_action_cookie Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 18/32] firewire: Use __mem_to_flex_dup() with struct iso_interrupt_event Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 19/32] afs: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct afs_acl Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 20/32] ASoC: sigmadsp: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct sigmadsp_data Kees Cook
2022-05-04 15:17   ` Mark Brown
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 21/32] soc: qcom: apr: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct apr_rx_buf Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 22/32] atags_proc: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct buffer Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 23/32] Bluetooth: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct hci_op_configure_data_path Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 24/32] IB/hfi1: Use mem_to_flex_dup() for struct tid_rb_node Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 25/32] Drivers: hv: utils: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct cn_msg Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 26/32] ima: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct modsig Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 27/32] KEYS: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct user_key_payload Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 28/32] selinux: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with xfrm and sidtab Kees Cook
2022-05-04 22:57   ` Paul Moore
2022-05-04 23:43     ` Gustavo A. R. Silva
2022-05-05  3:14       ` Paul Moore
2022-05-05 18:39         ` Kees Cook
2022-05-05 23:16           ` Paul Moore
2022-05-06  1:08             ` Gustavo A. R. Silva
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 29/32] xtensa: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct property Kees Cook
2022-05-04 18:09   ` Rob Herring
2022-05-04 18:09     ` Rob Herring
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 30/32] usb: gadget: f_fs: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct ffs_buffer Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 31/32] xenbus: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct read_buffer Kees Cook
2022-05-04  1:44 ` [PATCH 32/32] esas2r: Use __mem_to_flex() with struct atto_ioctl Kees Cook
2022-05-12 21:41 ` [PATCH 19/32] afs: Use mem_to_flex_dup() with struct afs_acl David Howells
2022-05-12 21:41   ` David Howells
2022-05-13 15:44   ` Kees Cook
2022-05-13 15:44     ` Kees Cook
2022-05-12 21:47 ` [PATCH 00/32] Introduce flexible array struct memcpy() helpers David Howells
2022-05-12 21:47   ` David Howells

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