[virtio-dev] Re: [PATCH v9] virtio-net: support inner header hash

["Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 10:26:30AM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 9:03 PM Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 10:50:48AM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:
> > > Hi:
> > >
> > > 在 2023/2/22 14:46, Heng Qi 写道:
> > > > Hi, Jason. Long time no see. :)
> > > >
> > > > 在 2023/2/22 上午11:22, Jason Wang 写道:
> > > > >
> > > > > 在 2023/2/22 01:50, Michael S. Tsirkin 写道:
> > > > > > On Sat, Feb 18, 2023 at 10:37:15PM +0800, Heng Qi wrote:
> > > > > > > +\subparagraph{Security risks between encapsulated packets and RSS}
> > > > > > > +There may be potential security risks when encapsulated
> > > > > > > packets using RSS to
> > > > > > > +select queues for placement. When a user inside a tunnel
> > > > > > > tries to control the
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you mean by "user" here? Is it a remote or local one?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I mean a remote attacker who is not under the control of the tunnel
> > > > owner.
> > >
> > >
> > > Anything may the tunnel different? I think this can happen even without
> > > tunnel (and even with single queue).
> >
> > I think you are missing the fact that tunnel is normally a
> > security boundary: users within the tunnel can not control
> > what is happening outside.
> > The feature breaks the encapsulation somewhat.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand here, if we allow hash based on the inner
> packet, is it something that you meant the things that are happening
> outside? It doesn't differ too much from the case where the tunnel is
> not used. It's impossible to prevent what a remote user is trying to
> send, and if there's a NIC behaviour that depends on the packet
> content, the behaviour of the NIC is somehow under the control of the
> remote user.
> 
> Since we only care about the device driver interface, what we can do
> is probably:
> 
> 1) allow the driver to disable the inner hash when it spots a
> potential (D)DOS. And in the device, a fair queueing looks like a must
> but it should be the implementation details.

this breaks rss

> 2) hash based on both outer and inner

this might help a bit

> >
> > For example without tunneling it is possible
> > to create a special "bad guy queue" and direct specific tunnels
> > there by playing with key and indirection table.
> 
> Anything makes the tunneling different? We can still do this via the
> inner header hash, or at least we can disable the inner hash if we see
> a remote DOS.
> 
> Thanks

the difference is that tunneling is used for security/partitioning.

> >
> > > How to mitigate those attackers seems more like a implementation details
> > > where might require fair queuing or other QOS technology which has been well
> > > studied.
> > >
> > > It seems out of the scope of the spec (unless we want to let driver
> > > manageable QOS).
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > +enqueuing of encapsulated packets, then the user can flood
> > > > > > > the device with invaild
> > > > > > > +packets, and the flooded packets may be hashed into the
> > > > > > > same queue as packets in
> > > > > > > +other normal tunnels, which causing the queue to overflow.
> > > > > > > +
> > > > > > > +This can pose several security risks:
> > > > > > > +\begin{itemize}
> > > > > > > +\item  Encapsulated packets in the normal tunnels cannot be
> > > > > > > enqueued due to queue
> > > > > > > +       overflow, resulting in a large amount of packet loss.
> > > > > > > +\item  The delay and retransmission of packets in the
> > > > > > > normal tunnels are extremely increased.
> > > > > > > +\item  The user can observe the traffic information and
> > > > > > > enqueue information of other normal
> > > > > > > +       tunnels, and conduct targeted DoS attacks.
> > > > > > > +\end{\itemize}
> > > > > > > +
> > > > > > Hmm with this all written out it sounds pretty severe.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I think we need first understand whether or not it's a problem that
> > > > > we need to solve at spec level:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) anything make encapsulated packets different or why we can't hit
> > > > > this problem without encapsulation
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) whether or not it's the implementation details that the spec
> > > > > doesn't need to care (or how it is solved in real NIC)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > At this point with no ways to mitigate, I don't feel this is something
> > > > > > e.g. Linux can enable.  I am not going to nack the spec patch if
> > > > > > others  find this somehow useful e.g. for dpdk.
> > > > > > How about CC e.g. dpdk devs or whoever else is going to use this
> > > > > > and asking them for the opinion?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >


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