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Mon, 7 Oct 2019 10:02:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: packet writing support To: Mischa Baars , Jens Axboe , linux-block@vger.kernel.org References: <6e381f83-9a12-30d7-8f99-caaa6a608c4f@kernel.dk> <6c51a5fe93cfad0f76fdbfe47caaa5f5d3f1ca88.camel@cyberfiber.eu> <71a450ed-3f52-fb3a-b0fa-3a08bdc4b3f6@suse.de> <977cedab873dfe0705701b3b43c621a7a516e396.camel@cyberfiber.eu> <6eb30ce355f90eca126cbd2f11d359db2bbe69f1.camel@cyberfiber.eu> From: Hannes Reinecke Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=hare@suse.de; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBE6KyREBEACwRN6XKClPtxPiABx5GW+Yr1snfhjzExxkTYaINHsWHlsLg13kiemsS6o7 qrc+XP8FmhcnCOts9e2jxZxtmpB652lxRB9jZE40mcSLvYLM7S6aH0WXKn8bOqpqOGJiY2bc 6qz6rJuqkOx3YNuUgiAxjuoYauEl8dg4bzex3KGkGRuxzRlC8APjHlwmsr+ETxOLBfUoRNuE b4nUtaseMPkNDwM4L9+n9cxpGbdwX0XwKFhlQMbG3rWA3YqQYWj1erKIPpgpfM64hwsdk9zZ QO1krgfULH4poPQFpl2+yVeEMXtsSou915jn/51rBelXeLq+cjuK5+B/JZUXPnNDoxOG3j3V VSZxkxLJ8RO1YamqZZbVP6jhDQ/bLcAI3EfjVbxhw9KWrh8MxTcmyJPn3QMMEp3wpVX9nSOQ tzG72Up/Py67VQe0x8fqmu7R4MmddSbyqgHrab/Nu+ak6g2RRn3QHXAQ7PQUq55BDtj85hd9 W2iBiROhkZ/R+Q14cJkWhzaThN1sZ1zsfBNW0Im8OVn/J8bQUaS0a/NhpXJWv6J1ttkX3S0c QUratRfX4D1viAwNgoS0Joq7xIQD+CfJTax7pPn9rT////hSqJYUoMXkEz5IcO+hptCH1HF3 qz77aA5njEBQrDRlslUBkCZ5P+QvZgJDy0C3xRGdg6ZVXEXJOQARAQABtCpIYW5uZXMgUmVp bmVja2UgKFN1U0UgTGFicykgPGhhcmVAc3VzZS5kZT6JAkEEEwECACsCGwMFCRLMAwAGCwkI BwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheABQJOisquAhkBAAoJEGz4yi9OyKjPOHoQAJLeLvr6JNHx GPcHXaJLHQiinz2QP0/wtsT8+hE26dLzxb7hgxLafj9XlAXOG3FhGd+ySlQ5wSbbjdxNjgsq FIjqQ88/Lk1NfnqG5aUTPmhEF+PzkPogEV7Pm5Q17ap22VK623MPaltEba+ly6/pGOODbKBH ak3gqa7Gro5YCQzNU0QVtMpWyeGF7xQK76DY/atvAtuVPBJHER+RPIF7iv5J3/GFIfdrM+wS BubFVDOibgM7UBnpa7aohZ9RgPkzJpzECsbmbttxYaiv8+EOwark4VjvOne8dRaj50qeyJH6 HLpBXZDJH5ZcYJPMgunghSqghgfuUsd5fHmjFr3hDb5EoqAfgiRMSDom7wLZ9TGtT6viDldv hfWaIOD5UhpNYxfNgH6Y102gtMmN4o2P6g3UbZK1diH13s9DA5vI2mO2krGz2c5BOBmcctE5 iS+JWiCizOqia5Op+B/tUNye/YIXSC4oMR++Fgt30OEafB8twxydMAE3HmY+foawCpGq06yM vAguLzvm7f6wAPesDAO9vxRNC5y7JeN4Kytl561ciTICmBR80Pdgs/Obj2DwM6dvHquQbQrU Op4XtD3eGUW4qgD99DrMXqCcSXX/uay9kOG+fQBfK39jkPKZEuEV2QdpE4Pry36SUGfohSNq xXW+bMc6P+irTT39VWFUJMcSuQINBE6KyREBEACvEJggkGC42huFAqJcOcLqnjK83t4TVwEn JRisbY/VdeZIHTGtcGLqsALDzk+bEAcZapguzfp7cySzvuR6Hyq7hKEjEHAZmI/3IDc9nbdh EgdCiFatah0XZ/p4vp7KAelYqbv8YF/ORLylAdLh9rzLR6yHFqVaR4WL4pl4kEWwFhNSHLxe 55G56/dxBuoj4RrFoX3ynerXfbp4dH2KArPc0NfoamqebuGNfEQmDbtnCGE5zKcR0zvmXsRp qU7+caufueZyLwjTU+y5p34U4PlOO2Q7/bdaPEdXfpgvSpWk1o3H36LvkPV/PGGDCLzaNn04 BdiiiPEHwoIjCXOAcR+4+eqM4TSwVpTn6SNgbHLjAhCwCDyggK+3qEGJph+WNtNU7uFfscSP k4jqlxc8P+hn9IqaMWaeX9nBEaiKffR7OKjMdtFFnBRSXiW/kOKuuRdeDjL5gWJjY+IpdafP KhjvUFtfSwGdrDUh3SvB5knSixE3qbxbhbNxmqDVzyzMwunFANujyyVizS31DnWC6tKzANkC k15CyeFC6sFFu+WpRxvC6fzQTLI5CRGAB6FAxz8Hu5rpNNZHsbYs9Vfr/BJuSUfRI/12eOCL IvxRPpmMOlcI4WDW3EDkzqNAXn5Onx/b0rFGFpM4GmSPriEJdBb4M4pSD6fN6Y/Jrng/Bdwk SQARAQABiQIlBBgBAgAPBQJOiskRAhsMBQkSzAMAAAoJEGz4yi9OyKjPgEwQAIP/gy/Xqc1q OpzfFScswk3CEoZWSqHxn/fZasa4IzkwhTUmukuIvRew+BzwvrTxhHcz9qQ8hX7iDPTZBcUt ovWPxz+3XfbGqE+q0JunlIsP4N+K/I10nyoGdoFpMFMfDnAiMUiUatHRf9Wsif/nT6oRiPNJ T0EbbeSyIYe+ZOMFfZBVGPqBCbe8YMI+JiZeez8L9JtegxQ6O3EMQ//1eoPJ5mv5lWXLFQfx f4rAcKseM8DE6xs1+1AIsSIG6H+EE3tVm+GdCkBaVAZo2VMVapx9k8RMSlW7vlGEQsHtI0FT c1XNOCGjaP4ITYUiOpfkh+N0nUZVRTxWnJqVPGZ2Nt7xCk7eoJWTSMWmodFlsKSgfblXVfdM 9qoNScM3u0b9iYYuw/ijZ7VtYXFuQdh0XMM/V6zFrLnnhNmg0pnK6hO1LUgZlrxHwLZk5X8F uD/0MCbPmsYUMHPuJd5dSLUFTlejVXIbKTSAMd0tDSP5Ms8Ds84z5eHreiy1ijatqRFWFJRp ZtWlhGRERnDH17PUXDglsOA08HCls0PHx8itYsjYCAyETlxlLApXWdVl9YVwbQpQ+i693t/Y PGu8jotn0++P19d3JwXW8t6TVvBIQ1dRZHx1IxGLMn+CkDJMOmHAUMWTAXX2rf5tUjas8/v2 azzYF4VRJsdl+d0MCaSy8mUh Message-ID: <2eb69a14-ad96-573a-4b68-aaabee178b42@suse.de> Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2019 12:02:17 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6eb30ce355f90eca126cbd2f11d359db2bbe69f1.camel@cyberfiber.eu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: linux-block-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-block@vger.kernel.org On 10/7/19 11:11 AM, Mischa Baars wrote: > On Mon, 2019-10-07 at 10:45 +0200, Hannes Reinecke wrote: >> On 10/7/19 10:07 AM, Mischa Baars wrote: >>> On Mon, 2019-10-07 at 09:23 +0200, Hannes Reinecke wrote: >>>> On 10/7/19 9:02 AM, Mischa Baars wrote: >>>>> On Sun, 2019-10-06 at 09:10 -0600, Jens Axboe wrote: >>>> [ .. ] >>>>>> I'm saying that you are comparing apples to oranges. The floppy driver >>>>>> might be older tech, but it's much more used than pktcdvd. It's not the >>>>>> case that we must pick one over the other, in terms of what stays and >>>>>> what goes. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes we are, sort of. You can even have my pear. That's exactly the problem with your story :) >>>>> >>>>> A DVD is 4Gb and Blueray goes all the way up to 100Gb, while a floppy disc is 1.44Mb. >>>>> Who would want to write his backup files to 1.44Mb floppy disc these days? >>>>> >>>> Why do you keep on bringing up floppy? >>>> I was under the impression that you wanted to use pktdvd, not floppy... >>>> And as Jens made it clear, any potential removal of the floppy driver >>>> will have _zero_ influence on the future of pktdvd. >>> >>> I do not keep bringing up the floppy drives. I'm merely trying to point >>> out that removing the floppy driver is the more logical course of action. >>> >> ?? >> >>> Also, you must be mistaken. It's not about the potential removal of the >>> floppy driver, it's about the removal of the packet writing driver. There >>> will be no pktcdvd kernel module in the future. To be precise, both reading >>> and writing dvd's is already unsupported in the latest linux-next kernel. >>> >> I know what pktcddvd is, and I know what it's used for. >> All what Jens has been complaining is that the code has been >> unmaintained for quite a while, and only very few bugfixes coming in. >> Which typically indicates that there are only very few users left, if any. > > Well, I was using it :( > > Hope that isn't any problem? > >>>> And in either case, the main question here was: >>>> Will you rebase your project to latest mainline once it's ready? >>>> Or will you settle on a kernel version to do your development on, and >>>> continue using that for your project? >>> >>> No, the code is intended for companies like AMD, Intel or ARM. It >>> is not indended for the opensource community. Does that mean that >>> I cannot develop on an opensource platform? Is that you are trying to tell me? >>> >> No. >> What we are trying to tell you is that: >> a) The code is unmaintained, and (as of now) there hadn't been anyone >> expressing an interest. If you require this driver for your project, >> send a mail to Jens Axboe that you are willing to take over >> maintainership for this driver. Then you get to decide if and when the >> driver should be obsoleted. You'll be responsible for fixing issues with >> that driver, true, but to quote the brexit axiom: you can't have the >> cake and eat it ... >> b) The underlying hardware is becoming obsolete. SCSI CD-ROM drivers are >> a thing of the past, and ATAPI hardware is on its way to be replaced >> with USB Flash. Case in point: ATAPI support got dropped from the ATA >> spec ACS-4, and most laptops nowadays don't even have a DVD slot >> anymore. Hence I would question the need for DVD support in the future. >> Unless, of course, you do happen to work for a company producing said >> devices, in which case I would strongly recommend going for a) above. > > b) My point exactly, CD, DVD and Blueray is being replaced by USB Flash. > The problem is, as you can read in my first mail, is that USB is rewritable. Also, I > can't even image that 100Gb Blueray is a thing of the past. Slots can be > replaced by USB, but that doesn't make the writer obsolete. > Kingston 128GB USB flash, USD 15 per unit. What was your question? > > a) If neccesary I could do the maintaining, sure. > Guess it is. Please send a mail to Jens Axboe applying for pktdvd maintainership. Cheers, Hannes -- Dr. Hannes Reinecke Teamlead Storage & Networking hare@suse.de +49 911 74053 688 SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg HRB 247165 (AG München), GF: Felix Imendörffer