From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,URIBL_SBL,URIBL_SBL_A autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB62ECDE46 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:31:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3A582085B for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:31:33 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org F3A582085B Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=columbia.edu Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728043AbeJ0DJh (ORCPT ); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:09:37 -0400 Received: from moglen4.apt.columbia.edu ([160.39.60.15]:47738 "EHLO moglen4.apt.columbia.edu" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726815AbeJ0DJh (ORCPT ); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 23:09:37 -0400 Received: from localhost (moglen1.apt.columbia.edu [160.39.60.12]) by moglen4.apt.columbia.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B8DD32E0158; Fri, 26 Oct 2018 18:31:30 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:31:30 -0400 Message-Id: <3068-Fri26Oct2018143130-0400-eben@harlan.sflc-vpn> X-Mailer: emacs 23; VM 8.1.0 under 23.2.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: visionsofalice@redchan.it Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, esr@thyrsus.com, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org, rms@gnu.org, bruce@perens.com, bkuhn@sfconservancy.org, editor@lwn.net, neil@brown.name, labbott@redhat.com, torvalds@linux-foundation.org, ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, tglx@linutronix.de, olof@lixom.net, clm@fb.com, mishi@linux.com, linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: The linux devs can rescind their license grant. In-Reply-To: visionsofalice@redchan.it's message of Fri, 26 Oct 2018 17:32:58 +0000 <4c023302875de71cc58007301b180940@redchan.it> References: <20181020134908.GA32218@kroah.com> <87y3ar80ac.fsf@notabene.neil.brown.name> <185b786a2bd6e8d527dca161dc42e4f1@redchan.it> <20181025081911.GB11343@kroah.com> <20181025193901.GD26403@thyrsus.com> <849-Fri26Oct2018091533-0400-eben@harlan.sflc-vpn> <4c023302875de71cc58007301b180940@redchan.it> From: Eben Moglen Reply-To: Eben Moglen Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Friday, 26 October 2018, visionsofalice@redchan.it wrote: You are conflating case law dealing with commercial software and non-gratuitous licenses with the present situation, which would likely be a case of first-impression in nearly any jurisdiction. I think the best procedure would be for me to publish my analysis and for you then to tell me what is wrong with it. What you say here sounds like what a lawyer might say, but isn't. I have been teaching this stuff for about thirty years, so if I am conflating or confusing anything I will be grateful for help in seeing my mistake. The rule for gratuitous licenses is that they are revocable at the will of the grantor. That's not actually "the rule." It sounds like it might be the rule, but it so happens that it's not. When I have given the explanation as I have learned, taught and depended on it, you will be able to show me what I am wrong about. Raymond Nimmer (God rest his soul) was in agreement on this point, vis-a-vis the GPL and similar licenses. You have your Nimmers confused. The primary author of the treatise Nimmer on Copyright (a book about the law, not in itself an authority) was Melville Nimmer. The treatise is continued by his son, David, a fine lawyer with whom I do from time to time politely disagree about something. Ray Nimmer is quite another person. Eben -- Eben Moglen v: 212-461-1901 Professor of Law, Columbia Law School f: 212-854-7946 moglen@ 435 West 116th Street, New York City, NY 10027 columbia.edu Founding Director, Software Freedom Law Center softwarefreedom.org