From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30AE9C56202 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:33:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E508D20B1F for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:33:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S2390029AbgKWQdW (ORCPT ); Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:33:22 -0500 Received: from smtprelay0102.hostedemail.com ([216.40.44.102]:57280 "EHLO smtprelay.hostedemail.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S2387935AbgKWQc6 (ORCPT ); Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:32:58 -0500 Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 6A6F6540706572636865732E636F6D X-HE-Tag: can43_5c1502d27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5503 Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang From: Joe Perches To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Cc: Kees Cook , Jakub Kicinski , "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , linux-kernel , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, cluster-devel@redhat.com, coreteam@netfilter.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, Linux ARM , linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, Ext4 Developers List , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, Linux Media Mailing List , linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, Linux-MM , linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , Network Development , netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, patches@opensource.cirrus.com, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, selinux@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org, Nick Desaulniers , Nathan Chancellor , Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CFA0C56202 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kanga.kvack.org (kanga.kvack.org [205.233.56.17]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4987F20888 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:56 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 4987F20888 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=perches.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) id C84626B00B6; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:32:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 40) id C0D816B00B8; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:32:55 -0500 (EST) X-Delivered-To: int-list-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 63042) id AB02F6B00B9; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:32:55 -0500 (EST) X-Delivered-To: linux-mm@kvack.org Received: from forelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0166.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.166]) by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7569F6B00B6 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:32:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtpin16.hostedemail.com (10.5.19.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.19.251]) by forelay02.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB52363C for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:55 +0000 (UTC) X-FDA: 77516227110.16.note62_0912dac27366 Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (10.5.16.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.16.251]) by smtpin16.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5F06100E690C for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:54 +0000 (UTC) X-HE-Tag: note62_0912dac27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 6889 Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0137.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.137]) by imf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 6A6F6540706572636865732E636F6D X-HE-Tag: can43_5c1502d27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5503 Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang From: Joe Perches To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Cc: Kees Cook , Jakub Kicinski , "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , linux-kernel , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, cluster-devel@redhat.com, coreteam@netfilter.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, Linux ARM , linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, Ext4 Developers List , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, Linux Media Mailing List , linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, Linux-MM , linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , Network Development , netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, patches@opensource.cirrus.com, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, selinux@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org, Nick Desaulniers , Nathan Chancellor , Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C430FC6379F for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from whitealder.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EF2B20717 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:04 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 3EF2B20717 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=perches.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=driverdev-devel-bounces@linuxdriverproject.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by whitealder.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5383842FC; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from whitealder.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xq2KK+GzjPv4; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ash.osuosl.org (ash.osuosl.org [140.211.166.34]) by whitealder.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 069B384237; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hemlock.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [140.211.166.133]) by ash.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3A4B1BF4DA for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hemlock.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC032861A2 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:01 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from hemlock.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CySe1i70lr36 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:01 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0178.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.178]) by hemlock.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CB6A85ECB for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (10.5.19.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.19.251]) by smtpgrave01.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3513118013217 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 6A6F6540706572636865732E636F6D X-HE-Tag: can43_5c1502d27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5503 Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang From: Joe Perches To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: driverdev-devel@linuxdriverproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Linux Driver Project Developer List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: driverdev-devel-bounces@linuxdriverproject.org Sender: "devel" On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list devel@linuxdriverproject.org http://driverdev.linuxdriverproject.org/mailman/listinfo/driverdev-devel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A69AC2D0E4 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 17:16:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from alsa0.perex.cz (alsa0.perex.cz [77.48.224.243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D622206FB for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 17:16:14 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=alsa-project.org header.i=@alsa-project.org header.b="f+N+eAJH" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 3D622206FB Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=perches.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=alsa-devel-bounces@alsa-project.org Received: from alsa1.perex.cz (alsa1.perex.cz [207.180.221.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by alsa0.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CF3216D0; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 18:15:22 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 alsa0.perex.cz 9CF3216D0 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=alsa-project.org; s=default; t=1606238172; bh=F7HGwEDAGaRYRp1VaK453lm77ejUzdmiQtF5vgrGqvw=; h=Subject:From:To:Date:In-Reply-To:References:Cc:List-Id: List-Unsubscribe:List-Archive:List-Post:List-Help:List-Subscribe: From; b=f+N+eAJHDuMbGACdN7KJjqWUI8dTy1exSFOKx4Vkx0iSjLYIY4sm0ANahdZU2c9mK 78MhOj6KBPuXfBSIFR+JB3xRXF8RCQghBmkuhfX3UMQWCyoOd+K2chjIxcM4D4GEkH 9NycRaLcbLhFDH2wrXyD1pnWnQ+Wwc7W21nO6rbk= Received: from alsa1.perex.cz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCD3BF8060D; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 17:58:51 +0100 (CET) Received: by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix, from userid 50401) id 0096EF80255; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 17:33:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0102.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by alsa1.perex.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0223DF8015B for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 17:33:00 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 alsa1.perex.cz 0223DF8015B Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 6A6F6540706572636865732E636F6D X-HE-Tag: can43_5c1502d27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5503 Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang From: Joe Perches To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 17:58:08 +0100 Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org X-BeenThere: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Alsa-devel mailing list for ALSA developers - http://www.alsa-project.org" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: alsa-devel-bounces@alsa-project.org Sender: "Alsa-devel" On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 394F6C63697 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:34:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7FA220665 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:34:00 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lists.infradead.org header.i=@lists.infradead.org header.b="br/jBCjJ" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org C7FA220665 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=perches.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-mtd-bounces+linux-mtd=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=merlin.20170209; h=Sender:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:Cc:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post:List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Date:To:From: Subject:Message-ID:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Owner; bh=YkjOdq0QNzw5SKhLZdsG35E8pROUey2SG73q/SgQLIs=; b=br/jBCjJ71fKo114mUubj837J evCVCKZ9QsNu2f4ULOEuRuh7Yb/1d8LkXCA4LgXzMPctEzPr0rTOz6EBa0k9LU/Rzhys/bwk0c7FM 355QdWuNwpyTeByfdh1Yp41bhqv35+w7ZdOOt+I7LuY9DlEL7si2vPb15F6BrhQJPWcpBZcwHjMpB RxlqsHm5SGCACkWLNEA7TaP9rR4p1zJ01P8DYVUFKctfNLvtSmDt6pPERPPMNCAywSI8/AVwHO2KK XmJw5UEhemgRtzRj2ZqA58IHJ/h/IeeqBiSNcAMg/c9l2lXaApnynlRH4ImVx9e9CiMjpFPZ3Pp42 CD8msZk1g==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=merlin.infradead.org) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khEm1-0007i0-Ne; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:33:05 +0000 Received: from smtprelay0241.hostedemail.com ([216.40.44.241] helo=smtprelay.hostedemail.com) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khElt-0007dm-Ff; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:58 +0000 Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 6A6F6540706572636865732E636F6D X-HE-Tag: can43_5c1502d27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5503 Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang From: Joe Perches To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20201123_113257_659486_8AF3AE28 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 11.29 ) X-BeenThere: linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Linux MTD discussion mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-mtd" Errors-To: linux-mtd-bounces+linux-mtd=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. ______________________________________________________ Linux MTD discussion mailing list http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/ From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848FEC56202 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:33:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BA7F20708 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:33:12 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lists.infradead.org header.i=@lists.infradead.org header.b="bh7eGTJH" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 1BA7F20708 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=perches.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-mediatek-bounces+linux-mediatek=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=merlin.20170209; h=Sender:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:Cc:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post:List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Date:To:From: Subject:Message-ID:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Owner; bh=3/SSNLGyGYSTTIgyt5cTYFag6MG3Vjs+B3ctPKMh6gA=; b=bh7eGTJHHhY9fqYr7uPvHFs+j wngwy/lsPg/EI1bn65O8a3MFnUt0v88a4ow8HUPm+6Tl8y20HNd1zGqc0zvOFWJqWc2bmXxU5mOvf mbZk0Fsok/d7YUHc2jUC62ib/X79iMvQrODKW+jTtRq1eIOmOnkJyPt7pK8TMux3O+T8UU2aKGEX4 ZDjPg5UIPhUroiLHkjbASR0ve5RuZEv+ZC27sw8wXeYTLRqgg0pYdV17wMfAH2mpT/H61pxelEeca 7GoTHxE9s9z1ubqYRnWp4plwCcYkns6gHJsdZmvWJZ65EpTjIXP2hj5ta5zXvgNMU/YyexntRWon8 izqBVKiDw==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=merlin.infradead.org) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khEly-0007h9-KT; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:33:02 +0000 Received: from smtprelay0241.hostedemail.com ([216.40.44.241] helo=smtprelay.hostedemail.com) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khElt-0007dm-Ff; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:58 +0000 Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 6A6F6540706572636865732E636F6D X-HE-Tag: can43_5c1502d27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5503 Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang From: Joe Perches To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20201123_113257_659486_8AF3AE28 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 11.29 ) X-BeenThere: linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "Linux-mediatek" Errors-To: linux-mediatek-bounces+linux-mediatek=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. _______________________________________________ Linux-mediatek mailing list Linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mediatek From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8F05C2D0E4 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hemlock.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [140.211.166.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04C4B20717 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:27 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 04C4B20717 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=perches.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=virtualization-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hemlock.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB4F86372; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:27 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from hemlock.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OqhvrWg8Odqh; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.linuxfoundation.org (lf-lists.osuosl.org [140.211.9.56]) by hemlock.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629968660A; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lf-lists.osuosl.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44420C1DA2; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fraxinus.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [140.211.166.137]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BABAC0052; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fraxinus.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6662D854AF; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from fraxinus.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PpkdNURUdH2g; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0178.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.178]) by fraxinus.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1779E8544C; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:38:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (10.5.19.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.19.251]) by smtpgrave03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23A811801EE81; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 6A6F6540706572636865732E636F6D X-HE-Tag: can43_5c1502d27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5503 Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang From: Joe Perches To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org X-BeenThere: virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Linux virtualization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: virtualization-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org Sender: "Virtualization" On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. _______________________________________________ Virtualization mailing list Virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/virtualization From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29234C63697 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA507206D4 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:57 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org CA507206D4 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=perches.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D5C26E045; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0221.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.221]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADA046E045; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 6A6F6540706572636865732E636F6D X-HE-Tag: can43_5c1502d27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5503 Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang From: Joe Perches To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Direct Rendering Infrastructure - Development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "dri-devel" On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. _______________________________________________ dri-devel mailing list dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45FA8C56201 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:54:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com [63.128.21.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B5302073C for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:54:23 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 7B5302073C Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=perches.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=tempfail smtp.mailfrom=dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-496-l0l9WHl7P3yLovwwD7SVIg-1; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 03:54:18 -0500 X-MC-Unique: l0l9WHl7P3yLovwwD7SVIg-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx05.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A75E718C43DE; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:54:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from colo-mx.corp.redhat.com (colo-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.21]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A0995D71D; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:54:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com (lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.19.33]) by colo-mx.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB8E4E590; 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Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:32:55 -0500 X-MC-Unique: 9u3T3Sk8OYaUkTBlnyt1VA-1 Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 6A6F6540706572636865732E636F6D X-HE-Tag: can43_5c1502d27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5503 Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> From: Joe Perches To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mimecast-Impersonation-Protect: Policy=CLT - Impersonation Protection Definition; Similar Internal Domain=false; Similar Monitored External Domain=false; Custom External Domain=false; Mimecast External Domain=false; Newly Observed Domain=false; Internal User Name=false; Custom Display Name List=false; Reply-to Address Mismatch=false; Targeted Threat Dictionary=false; Mimecast Threat Dictionary=false; Custom Threat Dictionary=false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.11.54.3 X-loop: dm-devel@redhat.com X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 03:53:49 -0500 Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, Linux, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, Nick, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, drbd-dev@tron.linbit.com, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang X-BeenThere: dm-devel@redhat.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: junk List-Id: device-mapper development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com Errors-To: dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.15 Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. -- dm-devel mailing list dm-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/dm-devel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17BF9C63798 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A2B782100A for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:58 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org A2B782100A Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=perches.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=intel-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D08286E049; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0221.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.221]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADA046E045; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 6A6F6540706572636865732E636F6D X-HE-Tag: can43_5c1502d27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5503 Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> From: Joe Perches To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Intel-gfx] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang X-BeenThere: intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Intel graphics driver community testing & development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: intel-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "Intel-gfx" On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. _______________________________________________ Intel-gfx mailing list Intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/intel-gfx From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 290AAC2D0E4 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:55:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95C8A20721 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:54:59 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 95C8A20721 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=perches.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=amd-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55696E0A2; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:54:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtprelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0221.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.221]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADA046E045; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 6A6F6540706572636865732E636F6D X-HE-Tag: can43_5c1502d27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5503 Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang From: Joe Perches To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:54:56 +0000 X-BeenThere: amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for AMD gfx List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: amd-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "amd-gfx" On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. _______________________________________________ amd-gfx mailing list amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/amd-gfx From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA2A7C64E7A for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:57:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30D03206B7 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:57:23 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lists.infradead.org header.i=@lists.infradead.org header.b="MhQVA2vf" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 30D03206B7 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=perches.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-i3c-bounces+linux-i3c=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=merlin.20170209; h=Sender:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:Cc:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post:List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Date:To:From: Subject:Message-ID:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Owner; bh=tE0Z02YABWK6tFFllRNQJEAlwfYPfNG+lOBcNwtDwlo=; b=MhQVA2vfh9iF0dB551O+AcgdB H/KXEAKtn2jreJOSd8q2aZiKG6tz4ROAOXTwq3XZuWNM6ycGzhKYKpvMxDOyHwznw5MOkpwY5PwPT B2PzUFtYXdpfhFu8ibbwVVBxzLSQNRlYtdVrkiIk7Xh4yltjVKxQi0sPu/8XaVsqyXdXPTEP+rMtR e2vh6N9S6/+/heXqLQ1a47oPQjKB/0u5/2k/YMXn2j39o99UZLt4s2m1LHDsQnRQoqT0V9svysEBt aifu45oBu5ra7JWDhbNzzRn4jqUkNTm9VVi4iKSHpaLfg3xx7HdBGYMaDI/sh058Mt9QtS/15+CkS UNeZS4noQ==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=merlin.infradead.org) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khrYA-0006X5-Fb; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:57:22 +0000 Received: from smtprelay0241.hostedemail.com ([216.40.44.241] helo=smtprelay.hostedemail.com) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khElt-0007dm-Ff; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:58 +0000 Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay07.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A722B181D3025; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 6A6F6540706572636865732E636F6D X-HE-Tag: can43_5c1502d27366 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 5503 Received: from XPS-9350.home (unknown [47.151.128.180]) (Authenticated sender: joe@perches.com) by omf03.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 16:32:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang From: Joe Perches To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> User-Agent: Evolution 3.38.1-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20201123_113257_659486_8AF3AE28 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 11.29 ) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 04:57:00 -0500 X-BeenThere: linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-i3c" Errors-To: linux-i3c-bounces+linux-i3c=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. -- linux-i3c mailing list linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-i3c From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Joe Perches Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 Subject: [Intel-wired-lan] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: intel-wired-lan@osuosl.org List-ID: On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Joe Perches Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 Subject: [Cluster-devel] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> List-Id: To: cluster-devel.redhat.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Message-ID: <32dc7423124b51da4e144e931bf099a368ab50a8.camel@perches.com> From: Joe Perches Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 08:32:41 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Bridge] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang List-Id: Linux Ethernet Bridging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: James Bottomley , Miguel Ojeda Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org On Mon, 2020-11-23 at 07:58 -0800, James Bottomley wrote: > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 https://www.wired.com/story/open-source-coders-few-tired/ > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. It's unclear how to measure value in consistency. But one way that costs can be reduced is by automation and _not_ involving maintainers when the patch itself is provably correct. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. The linux kernel has something like 1500 different maintainers listed in the MAINTAINERS file. That's not a trivial number. $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1543 $ git grep '^M:' MAINTAINERS| cut -f1 -d'<' | sort | uniq -c | wc -l 1446 I think the question you are asking is about trust and how it effects development. And back to that wired story, the actual number of what you might be considering to be maintainers is likely less than 10% of the listed numbers above.