From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FE8BC05027 for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 09:57:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSxTu-0007sL-6P; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 04:56:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSxTs-0007rv-Fr for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 04:56:40 -0500 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com ([170.10.133.124]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSxTq-0007Lq-RK for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 04:56:40 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1676627797; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=fGi7cWbHmiOulPJ2tTkT9NKwr+l1zYFkbNAa0THo0vw=; b=DW4MrX7i6Gni4lOOvAZcRgUkL1FGclqfqhJn7Fiask4hZXbunsPiSRE3A5YLxQpoY9sQ5H AouOAAMu+DP6JBXuL6otvxuiDWA7sfOZOgESaaquyI40Dr07baTxvq7IhR73Z2xTL0JJ3w BqVjs79rFIljEgMuU117GwWwIE144zQ= Received: from mail-qk1-f197.google.com (mail-qk1-f197.google.com [209.85.222.197]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.3, cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id us-mta-196-jiUnSoYSN0ebrbISGztsvA-1; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 04:56:36 -0500 X-MC-Unique: jiUnSoYSN0ebrbISGztsvA-1 Received: by mail-qk1-f197.google.com with SMTP id k5-20020a05620a0b8500b0072db6346c39so32033qkh.16 for ; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 01:56:36 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:subject:from:references:cc:to :content-language:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=fGi7cWbHmiOulPJ2tTkT9NKwr+l1zYFkbNAa0THo0vw=; b=T7SN6wBzyFhdsjgG0UQrrwZivJjYAD+M8RHgIlkIekWVqq9YFg6LFkQeQV5mPG4mJs E2ngEd+WxOSIOnbeG+jKBcqd52X8FjASJdXwHHS6yuh6Epk5PtR68xhJzH9HktJYCCyg kC0VdggG+PbdeMeT1VfmToT2yAScfz/Z0iq+b0x4wg7bUnQDGcHHGhXFL7SyLZvwTLJx GKd6EmpAaljvKRcnA4B73SBKZqoe3yzLZ1l4WuF5DVpUmGZlKePmdNrvOVfhgNAedGR+ VfiC5XZUYatJ3f2pJVdcL4+MQSbU6WcGgM2Q3dHnnqoyr4xqSfo44NcayZ7wBt43yGy7 VEsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKVBsWqo0G5JFy4Ny8FNhGJbpSoKjEvgU4l/LB32ytIMb0n+Iabw kNltjryy1sN/HJym9Zh8Kk+cDeuNH82EfSflPURD/YAeDTrwJG8yqcKObMsaHL+jf6fECGsrI9w YG3dQgSETDjMxK/E= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:58c4:0:b0:3b8:118d:ad86 with SMTP id u4-20020ac858c4000000b003b8118dad86mr809512qta.21.1676627795714; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 01:56:35 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set+4HZ816qD4fF0txk7rnDL9EB2zqobpMnyKqIfZxdaw4AGX5/9LEG16G109OCtkRVRmXB5Jpg== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:58c4:0:b0:3b8:118d:ad86 with SMTP id u4-20020ac858c4000000b003b8118dad86mr809487qta.21.1676627795456; Fri, 17 Feb 2023 01:56:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.2] (ip-109-43-176-32.web.vodafone.de. [109.43.176.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f17-20020ac80691000000b003b9b48cdbe8sm2950026qth.58.2023.02.17.01.56.32 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 17 Feb 2023 01:56:34 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <331ac041-254e-8db8-33f3-23b36e6a431c@redhat.com> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2023 10:56:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.13.0 Content-Language: en-US To: Markus Armbruster Cc: qemu-devel@nongnu.org, John Snow , Peter Maydell , Cleber Rosa , =?UTF-8?Q?Philippe_Mathieu-Daud=c3=a9?= , Daniel Berrange , Beraldo Leal , Michael Roth , Wainer dos Santos Moschetta , Paolo Bonzini , qemu-block@nongnu.org, Hanna Reitz , =?UTF-8?Q?Alex_Benn=c3=a9e?= , Kevin Wolf References: <20230210003147.1309376-1-jsnow@redhat.com> <87v8k2ycjb.fsf@pond.sub.org> <87zg9cirti.fsf@pond.sub.org> From: Thomas Huth Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/7] Python: Drop support for Python 3.6 In-Reply-To: <87zg9cirti.fsf@pond.sub.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=170.10.133.124; envelope-from=thuth@redhat.com; helo=us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com X-Spam_score_int: -24 X-Spam_score: -2.5 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.351, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org On 17/02/2023 10.06, Markus Armbruster wrote: > Thomas Huth writes: ... > My view on all this is a bit more pragmatic. > > For a human developer, the difference between "dnf install > python-sphinx" and "pip install sphinx" is, in my opinion, close to > negligible. Really no comparison to "git-clone GCC and bootstap it". > You seem to disagree with that. Honestly, being a Python ignorant, I completely messed up my system with "pip" already a couple of times, especially if the instructions forgot to tell me to use the "--user" switch. So yes, I tend to disagree ;-) > For automated builds in general, and distro packaging in particular, the > difference is real, and could even be a show stopper. But who's > packaging bleeding edge QEMU on CentOS 8? I suspect the only automated > builds are our own CI, where the difference is real, but hardly a show > stopper. If we've got the feeling that nobody out there really builds QEMU on older long-term distros anymore, then why the heck are we still trying to support this according to our support statement? > But then I'd like us to be a bit more pragmatic. Is minor and graceful > degradation for systems close to the trailing edge really so > unacceptably terrible that we have to bend over backwards to avoid it? Let's just get our support statement adjusted - it was written with good intention originally, but apparently this is causing too much pain, so we should adjust it instead of suffering in upstream development. >>> All the angst about CentOS falling off the end of our "supported build >>> platforms" list is not actually warranted by this series :) >> >> Using the term "angst" for the concerns of your fellows here is quite >> cheeky. It's not about "angst", it's about a discussion that our support >> policy might need to be adjusted if we do this step. So instead of writing >> such sentences, I'd rather would like to see you posting a patch for >> docs/about/build-platforms.rst for constructive further discussion instead. > > The phrasing of this sentence was ill-advised. If it caused offense, I > apologize. Ok, thanks. And just to make it clear again: I certainly do not object dropping the support for Python 3.6 - I just want to make sure that we adjust our support statement if the current version is causing too much pain for us. Sorry if I got that across in the wrong way. Thomas