From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75DFDC2B9F4 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 14:00:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EDE6613A9 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 14:00:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S232831AbhFQODA (ORCPT ); Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:03:00 -0400 Received: from mail.kernel.org ([198.145.29.99]:43364 "EHLO mail.kernel.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S229915AbhFQOC7 (ORCPT ); Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:02:59 -0400 Received: by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6883461241; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 14:00:50 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1623938451; bh=Qld/pseRm0yfQ9yP2fU9GzvjQttVMbVMBgNd/24GmDw=; h=In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:From; b=T+f1Xp9tPYO3P+sYRvf+JXHpLZFTHGqXHDBQf5CnhnRXqaGVvFvsXOYTXF6+f7tPE mDzU39pXPO+nFKpDRpiu3Pge2Vto+9Vy1maAXnGqYAARJLgc6K4i5mSKTMNPwEAwIT 3gAq4cZFDHECozCVWkYKkPYX3jlOuFjwlxkGllmVOWojRzr2QU1l2AVek3RxFaJsG5 WVZBguBmrxBUKuVAz68m5N6tt/IEAiMsuIQFecLDD+s3iBkptE9XZACmrJLuPBLMge J4YiAHrIMyi+sUNqaTZkxsr6+8FYZBhq0N7bzKFLGhZ3B8O6jAfqYV6UrdTEGCNSts yY765r+FCchZw== Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailauth.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F8A227C0060; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap21 ([10.202.2.71]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:00:49 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrfeefuddgjedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqhertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedftehn ugihucfnuhhtohhmihhrshhkihdfuceolhhuthhosehkvghrnhgvlhdrohhrgheqnecugg ftrfgrthhtvghrnhepvdelheejjeevhfdutdeggefftdejtdffgeevteehvdfgjeeiveei ueefveeuvdetnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrh homheprghnugihodhmvghsmhhtphgruhhthhhpvghrshhonhgrlhhithihqdduudeiudek heeifedvqddvieefudeiiedtkedqlhhuthhopeepkhgvrhhnvghlrdhorhhgsehlihhnuh igrdhluhhtohdruhhs X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id A3BEC51C0061; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:00:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-526-gf020ecf851-fm-20210616.001-gf020ecf8 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <33241b25-4d45-4278-a4e6-ec9c12b0e1f3@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20210617135133.GA86101@C02TD0UTHF1T.local> References: <2142129092ff9aa00e600c42a26c4015b7f5ceec.1623813516.git.luto@kernel.org> <20210617103524.GA82133@C02TD0UTHF1T.local> <20210617112305.GK22278@shell.armlinux.org.uk> <20210617113349.GB82133@C02TD0UTHF1T.local> <394219d4-36a6-4e7f-a03c-8590551b099a@www.fastmail.com> <20210617135133.GA86101@C02TD0UTHF1T.local> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 07:00:26 -0700 From: "Andy Lutomirski" To: "Mark Rutland" Cc: "Russell King (Oracle)" , "the arch/x86 maintainers" , "Dave Hansen" , "Linux Kernel Mailing List" , linux-mm@kvack.org, "Andrew Morton" , "Mathieu Desnoyers" , "Nicholas Piggin" , "Peter Zijlstra (Intel)" , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 7/8] membarrier: Remove arm (32) support for SYNC_CORE Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Thu, Jun 17, 2021, at 6:51 AM, Mark Rutland wrote: > On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 06:41:41AM -0700, Andy Lutomirski wrote: > > In any event, I=E2=80=99m even more convinced that no new SYNC_CORE = arches > > should be added. We need a new API that just does the right thing.=20= >=20 > My intuition is the other way around, and that this is a gnereally > useful thing for architectures that require context synchronization. Except that you can't use it in a generic way. You have to know the spe= cific rules for your arch. >=20 > It's not clear to me what "the right thing" would mean specifically, a= nd > on architectures with userspace cache maintenance JITs can usually do > the most optimal maintenance, and only need help for the context > synchronization. >=20 This I simply don't believe -- I doubt that any sane architecture really= works like this. I wrote an email about it to Intel that apparently ge= nerated internal discussion but no results. Consider: mmap(some shared library, some previously unmapped address); this does no heavyweight synchronization, at least on x86. There is no = "serializing" instruction in the fast path, and it *works* despite anyth= ing the SDM may or may not say. We can and, IMO, should develop a sane way for user programs to install = instructions into VMAs, for security-conscious software to verify them (= by splitting the read and write sides?), and for their consumers to exec= ute them, without knowing any arch details. And I think this can be don= e with no IPIs except for possible TLB flushing when needed, at least on= most architectures. It would require a nontrivial amount of design wor= k, and it would not resemble sys_cacheflush() or SYNC_CORE. --Andy From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A05EAC2B9F4 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 14:02:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bombadil.infradead.org (bombadil.infradead.org [198.137.202.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BB94611CA for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 14:02:30 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 5BB94611CA Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; 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Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap21 ([10.202.2.71]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:00:49 -0400 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrfeefuddgjedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqhertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedftehn ugihucfnuhhtohhmihhrshhkihdfuceolhhuthhosehkvghrnhgvlhdrohhrgheqnecugg ftrfgrthhtvghrnhepvdelheejjeevhfdutdeggefftdejtdffgeevteehvdfgjeeiveei ueefveeuvdetnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrh homheprghnugihodhmvghsmhhtphgruhhthhhpvghrshhonhgrlhhithihqdduudeiudek heeifedvqddvieefudeiiedtkedqlhhuthhopeepkhgvrhhnvghlrdhorhhgsehlihhnuh igrdhluhhtohdruhhs X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id A3BEC51C0061; Thu, 17 Jun 2021 10:00:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-526-gf020ecf851-fm-20210616.001-gf020ecf8 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <33241b25-4d45-4278-a4e6-ec9c12b0e1f3@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20210617135133.GA86101@C02TD0UTHF1T.local> References: <2142129092ff9aa00e600c42a26c4015b7f5ceec.1623813516.git.luto@kernel.org> <20210617103524.GA82133@C02TD0UTHF1T.local> <20210617112305.GK22278@shell.armlinux.org.uk> <20210617113349.GB82133@C02TD0UTHF1T.local> <394219d4-36a6-4e7f-a03c-8590551b099a@www.fastmail.com> <20210617135133.GA86101@C02TD0UTHF1T.local> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2021 07:00:26 -0700 From: "Andy Lutomirski" To: "Mark Rutland" Cc: "Russell King (Oracle)" , "the arch/x86 maintainers" , "Dave Hansen" , "Linux Kernel Mailing List" , linux-mm@kvack.org, "Andrew Morton" , "Mathieu Desnoyers" , "Nicholas Piggin" , "Peter Zijlstra (Intel)" , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 7/8] membarrier: Remove arm (32) support for SYNC_CORE X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20210617_070051_833254_1DD22F75 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 14.91 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org CgpPbiBUaHUsIEp1biAxNywgMjAyMSwgYXQgNjo1MSBBTSwgTWFyayBSdXRsYW5kIHdyb3RlOgo+ IE9uIFRodSwgSnVuIDE3LCAyMDIxIGF0IDA2OjQxOjQxQU0gLTA3MDAsIEFuZHkgTHV0b21pcnNr aSB3cm90ZToKCj4gPiBJbiBhbnkgZXZlbnQsIEnigJltIGV2ZW4gbW9yZSBjb252aW5jZWQgdGhh dCBubyBuZXcgU1lOQ19DT1JFIGFyY2hlcwo+ID4gc2hvdWxkIGJlIGFkZGVkLiBXZSBuZWVkIGEg bmV3IEFQSSB0aGF0IGp1c3QgZG9lcyB0aGUgcmlnaHQgdGhpbmcuIAo+IAo+IE15IGludHVpdGlv biBpcyB0aGUgb3RoZXIgd2F5IGFyb3VuZCwgYW5kIHRoYXQgdGhpcyBpcyBhIGduZXJlYWxseQo+ IHVzZWZ1bCB0aGluZyBmb3IgYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlcyB0aGF0IHJlcXVpcmUgY29udGV4dCBzeW5j aHJvbml6YXRpb24uCgpFeGNlcHQgdGhhdCB5b3UgY2FuJ3QgdXNlIGl0IGluIGEgZ2VuZXJpYyB3 YXkuICBZb3UgaGF2ZSB0byBrbm93IHRoZSBzcGVjaWZpYyBydWxlcyBmb3IgeW91ciBhcmNoLgoK PiAKPiBJdCdzIG5vdCBjbGVhciB0byBtZSB3aGF0ICJ0aGUgcmlnaHQgdGhpbmciIHdvdWxkIG1l YW4gc3BlY2lmaWNhbGx5LCBhbmQKPiBvbiBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmVzIHdpdGggdXNlcnNwYWNlIGNh Y2hlIG1haW50ZW5hbmNlIEpJVHMgY2FuIHVzdWFsbHkgZG8KPiB0aGUgbW9zdCBvcHRpbWFsIG1h aW50ZW5hbmNlLCBhbmQgb25seSBuZWVkIGhlbHAgZm9yIHRoZSBjb250ZXh0Cj4gc3luY2hyb25p emF0aW9uLgo+IAoKVGhpcyBJIHNpbXBseSBkb24ndCBiZWxpZXZlIC0tIEkgZG91YnQgdGhhdCBh bnkgc2FuZSBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUgcmVhbGx5IHdvcmtzIGxpa2UgdGhpcy4gIEkgd3JvdGUgYW4g ZW1haWwgYWJvdXQgaXQgdG8gSW50ZWwgdGhhdCBhcHBhcmVudGx5IGdlbmVyYXRlZCBpbnRlcm5h bCBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGJ1dCBubyByZXN1bHRzLiAgQ29uc2lkZXI6CgptbWFwKHNvbWUgc2hhcmVk IGxpYnJhcnksIHNvbWUgcHJldmlvdXNseSB1bm1hcHBlZCBhZGRyZXNzKTsKCnRoaXMgZG9lcyBu byBoZWF2eXdlaWdodCBzeW5jaHJvbml6YXRpb24sIGF0IGxlYXN0IG9uIHg4Ni4gIFRoZXJlIGlz IG5vICJzZXJpYWxpemluZyIgaW5zdHJ1Y3Rpb24gaW4gdGhlIGZhc3QgcGF0aCwgYW5kIGl0ICp3 b3JrcyogZGVzcGl0ZSBhbnl0aGluZyB0aGUgU0RNIG1heSBvciBtYXkgbm90IHNheS4KCldlIGNh biBhbmQsIElNTywgc2hvdWxkIGRldmVsb3AgYSBzYW5lIHdheSBmb3IgdXNlciBwcm9ncmFtcyB0 byBpbnN0YWxsIGluc3RydWN0aW9ucyBpbnRvIFZNQXMsIGZvciBzZWN1cml0eS1jb25zY2lvdXMg c29mdHdhcmUgdG8gdmVyaWZ5IHRoZW0gKGJ5IHNwbGl0dGluZyB0aGUgcmVhZCBhbmQgd3JpdGUg c2lkZXM/KSwgYW5kIGZvciB0aGVpciBjb25zdW1lcnMgdG8gZXhlY3V0ZSB0aGVtLCB3aXRob3V0 IGtub3dpbmcgYW55IGFyY2ggZGV0YWlscy4gIEFuZCBJIHRoaW5rIHRoaXMgY2FuIGJlIGRvbmUg d2l0aCBubyBJUElzIGV4Y2VwdCBmb3IgcG9zc2libGUgVExCIGZsdXNoaW5nIHdoZW4gbmVlZGVk LCBhdCBsZWFzdCBvbiBtb3N0IGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZXMuICBJdCB3b3VsZCByZXF1aXJlIGEgbm9u dHJpdmlhbCBhbW91bnQgb2YgZGVzaWduIHdvcmssIGFuZCBpdCB3b3VsZCBub3QgcmVzZW1ibGUg c3lzX2NhY2hlZmx1c2goKSBvciBTWU5DX0NPUkUuCgotLUFuZHkKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCmxpbnV4LWFybS1rZXJuZWwgbWFpbGluZyBs aXN0CmxpbnV4LWFybS1rZXJuZWxAbGlzdHMuaW5mcmFkZWFkLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMuaW5m cmFkZWFkLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2xpbnV4LWFybS1rZXJuZWwK