From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1161034AbVLJVKg (ORCPT ); Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:10:36 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1161035AbVLJVKf (ORCPT ); Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:10:35 -0500 Received: from c-67-177-35-222.hsd1.ut.comcast.net ([67.177.35.222]:3980 "EHLO vger.utah-nac.org") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1161034AbVLJVKf (ORCPT ); Sat, 10 Dec 2005 16:10:35 -0500 Message-ID: <439B3E36.7090302@wolfmountaingroup.com> Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 13:44:38 -0700 From: "Jeff V. Merkey" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040510 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jan-Benedict Glaw Cc: Helge Hafting , rms@gnu.org, Coywolf Qi Hunt , luke-jr@utopios.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: GNU/Linux in a binary world... a doomsday scenario References: <21d7e9970512051610n1244467am12adc8373c1a4473@mail.gmail.com> <20051206040820.GB26602@kroah.com> <2cd57c900512052358m5b631204i@mail.gmail.com> <200512061856.42493.luke-jr@utopios.org> <2cd57c900512061742s28f57b5eu@mail.gmail.com> <20051210051628.E9E08CF4156@tsurukikun.utopios.org> <439A7E8E.8010707@wolfmountaingroup.com> <20051210164320.GB15986@aitel.hist.no> <20051210190537.GI13985@lug-owl.de> <439B2215.6090408@wolfmountaingroup.com> <20051210191501.GJ13985@lug-owl.de> In-Reply-To: <20051210191501.GJ13985@lug-owl.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote: >On Sat, 2005-12-10 11:44:37 -0700, Jeff V. Merkey wrote: > > >>Two responses from people who live in socialist countries. Sure you >>agree, it's just status quo from your perspectives. >> >> > >Jeff, I'm not sure if we both think about the same things when we talk >about "socialist", but I guess you may want to have a look at >Germany's history, as well as the whole newer history (like 50 years) >of Old Europe... > >MfG, JBG > > > I'm married to a German citizen and I visit Germany for 3-4 week stints once a year. Last year I went to Aachen and Amsterdam on vacation. Every computer store I visited sold pirated copies of Windows XP and Microsoft Office and in Amsterdam people were selling copies on the street corners in the Artis District. The entire culture has absolutely no concept of IP rights and I was amazed at how open folks are there about piracy. If someone did that in the US, they'd be in jail. I have lived in Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Crete, and I spent about 2 years in the UK when I was a younger man, and I have a really good handle on the culture over there. Even the republic countries which have democratic governments are very much socialist in terms of the lifestyle and the governments, and the way people live, so it's no surprise the whole concept of free software and the GPL are so natural to the culture of Europe in general. I have been very dismayed at how FOSS has been used as a vehicle to promote anti-american attitudes into our own culture. It's sad. I have lived in all these places and the only place where people have guaranteed rights as individuals and true freedom is America. I was in Germany in the late 1970's and earlt 1980's when the Bater-Meinhoffs were killing Americans in the streets and the Grune-Gehfahr (Green Party) was having demonstrations burning effigies of Uncle Sam in the Hauptewache District in Frankfurt. This younger generation has no concept of what they are supporting or how bad things can get. It is the doom of men that they forget. At any rate, I do understand, and I have a son-in-law in Germany and grandchildren who speak German and not English (I know what Oh-pa means and I can always tell them "Ich Habe Dich Leib"), so I do agree the bonds between countries are becoming more and more blurred. I remember an older German man in Aachen in a Luftwaffe Uniform watching me with my grandson in Starbucks try to talk to each other and him smiling at the thought an American man has grandkids who are totally immersed in the German culture. At any rate, Stallman needs to in the next GPL incorporate capitalist provisions which will allow FOSS to become a self sustaining model. The US markets are abandoning Linux as a commerical offering and Windows is continuing to get stronger and stronger. It's tough to embrace technology when people cannot see a future in it. Hardware purchases aside. Jeff Jeff