From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S932202AbWG2SLX (ORCPT ); Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:11:23 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S932204AbWG2SLW (ORCPT ); Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:11:22 -0400 Received: from 63-162-81-179.lisco.net ([63.162.81.179]:49124 "EHLO grunt.slaphack.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S932202AbWG2SLW (ORCPT ); Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:11:22 -0400 Message-ID: <44CBA4BF.80301@slaphack.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:11:11 -0500 From: David Masover User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Arjan van de Ven CC: Hans Reiser , Linus Torvalds , "Horst H. von Brand" , Jeff Garzik , Andrew Morton , Theodore Tso , LKML , ReiserFS List Subject: Re: metadata plugins (was Re: the " 'official' point of view" expressed by kernelnewbies.org regarding reiser4 inclusion) References: <200607281402.k6SE245v004715@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <44CA31D2.70203@slaphack.com> <44C9FB93.9040201@namesys.com> <44CA6905.4050002@slaphack.com> <44CA126C.7050403@namesys.com> <44CA8771.1040708@slaphack.com> <44CABB87.3050509@namesys.com> <1154164364.2903.10.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> In-Reply-To: <1154164364.2903.10.camel@laptopd505.fenrus.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig8221BD0B50F43671F10ACC78" Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig8221BD0B50F43671F10ACC78 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Arjan van de Ven wrote: >> Most users not only cannot patch a kernel, they don't know what a patc= h >> is. It most certainly does.=20 >=20 >=20 > obviously you can provide complete kernels, including precompiled ones.= > Most distros have a yum or apt or similar tool to suck down packages, > it's trivial for users to add a site to that, so you could provide > packages if you want and make it easy for them. What's more, many distros patch their kernels extensively. They listen to their users, too. So if there are a lot of users wanting this to be in the kernel, let them complain -- loudly -- to their distro to patch for Reiser4. It could be made even easier than that -- if Reiser4 is really so self-contained, it could be a whole separate set of modules, distributed on its own. Most gamers have to be content with doing something similar with the nvidia drivers -- for different reasons (licensing) but with the same results. I know Gentoo handles this automatically (emerge nvidia-kernel). Hmm, maybe it makes it a pain to have it as a root filesystem, so that really needs distro support. And yet, we have a whole system designed specifically for being able to load modules and tweak settings before the root FS is available. It's called initrd, or more recently, initramfs. I use an old-style initrd on this box, because my root FS is on an nvidia RAID, so I have to run a program called "dmraid" before I mount my root FS -- it's really trivial for me to have Reiser4 as a module, and I do, despite it being a root FS. I suspect that, all technical, political, and "mine is bigger" arguments aside, being available as a root FS of a distro, especially a default FS, would go a long way towards inclusion in the kernel. So all you have to do is find a reasonably popular and friendly distro, with people who are (for the moment) easier to deal with than kernel people. Most people, if they even know what a filesystem or a kernel is, still won't bother compiling their own kernel, you're right. But that means they are more likely to be using a distro-patched kernel than a stock, vanilla one. Is this enough to be "in the jukebox", Hans? Of course, it's odd that I mention Gentoo, the Gentoo people (as a rule) hate ReiserFS, but there are far more distros than there are popular kernel forks. I'm sure someone will be interested. That's assuming that making further changes (putting stuff in the VFS) is out of the question (for now). --------------enig8221BD0B50F43671F10ACC78 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIVAwUBRMukv3gHNmZLgCUhAQrPnA//YLY9OzgTjKOTKJyRL+0LybpycvkTY7SD SRPoLMqlBILU4LIn7U3ax3MWBA//KFAIVJ42X3tYVD2EaZGHAOVKYukZYt6Kf2UX /mvX8+ovnY703Zb0MrHBGbbQ6SklFOp8sPZvwLO3eg9ko08ZsNV+xIUAk8ewe0yO ccCJrDlswlOT4ARgg57K3Wfn1xoRrkc02VuFWwACs/wtilt1ScVP4lfkC+DWkIp8 DSVjtCrp4wNOx+6ZlIq9MetPRwRwGzPpX449x0nlfXal0zyyx9SLl3K6P0bM9FEK J5EbytupN/jMH30gmMKqiZumjlnYm/dnnTHiza8NbGK27Qru2VtGfuM+7Ne/wPhf 7r0sqAtZBxjmygaVRa2wLDB8EX+GpA5zBQ8SjdGcahmHiwZQmupAWL20ciw11ONW h0Hm766yZRH46OxHFgXQjqCcF7ykL8e2+HHWc23Fn78xFW+FigZvLYzVlYt9GNH3 pPrFYDmZJQtU+RX188uRJZZGsAqmOaC4Swi1VPG566S2cUs+k4HjAGo5kxdvss+n LyNSbegZGJNnyhYuwjz4Nb3XtzADeG2twqp9GIkkF4kwc1H7mi8qiwfK97r+kgth 5EkZQKxonAu4DASi4c2GQN4j9vfJLAnMeJNnwxLNsiSGjd09MhUOZsF2Aj2ea3vX uSNnOlCbLJM= =X/Jt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig8221BD0B50F43671F10ACC78--