From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751295AbWGaUAZ (ORCPT ); Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:00:25 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751317AbWGaUAY (ORCPT ); Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:00:24 -0400 Received: from 63-162-81-179.lisco.net ([63.162.81.179]:40594 "EHLO grunt.slaphack.com") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751295AbWGaUAY (ORCPT ); Mon, 31 Jul 2006 16:00:24 -0400 Message-ID: <44CE6153.7090704@slaphack.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:00:19 -0500 From: David Masover User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (Macintosh/20060719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Clay Barnes , Rudy Zijlstra , Adrian Ulrich , vonbrand@inf.utfsm.cl, ipso@snappymail.ca, reiser@namesys.com, lkml@lpbproductions.com, jeff@garzik.org, tytso@mit.edu, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, reiserfs-list@namesys.com Subject: Re: the " 'official' point of view" expressed by kernelnewbies.org regarding reiser4 inclusion References: <200607241806.k6OI6uWY006324@laptop13.inf.utfsm.cl> <20060731125846.aafa9c7c.reiser4@blinkenlights.ch> <20060731144736.GA1389@merlin.emma.line.org> <20060731175958.1626513b.reiser4@blinkenlights.ch> <20060731162224.GJ31121@lug-owl.de> <20060731173239.GO31121@lug-owl.de> <20060731181120.GA9667@merlin.emma.line.org> <20060731184314.GQ31121@lug-owl.de> <20060731191712.GE17206@HAL_5000D.tc.ph.cox.net> <20060731192902.GS31121@lug-owl.de> In-Reply-To: <20060731192902.GS31121@lug-owl.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote: > On Mon, 2006-07-31 12:17:12 -0700, Clay Barnes wrote: >> On 20:43 Mon 31 Jul , Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote: >>> On Mon, 2006-07-31 20:11:20 +0200, Matthias Andree wrote: >>>> Jan-Benedict Glaw schrieb am 2006-07-31: > [Crippled DMA writes] >>>> Massive hardware problems don't count. ext2/ext3 doesn't look much better in >>>> such cases. I had a machine with RAM gone bad (no ECC - I wonder what >>> They do! Very much, actually. These happen In Real Life, so I have to >> I think what he meant was that it is unfair to blame reiser3 for data >> loss in a massive failure situation as a case example by itself. What > > Crippling a few KB of metadata in the ext{2,3} case probably wouldn't > fobar the filesystem... Probably. By the time a few KB of metadata are corrupted, I'm reaching for my backup. I don't care what filesystem it is or how easy it is to edit the on-disk structures. This isn't to say that having robust on-disk structures isn't a good thing. I have no idea how Reiser4 will hold up either way. But ultimately, what you want is the journaling (so power failure / crashes still leave you in an OK state), backups (so when blocks go bad, you don't care), and performance (so you can spend less money on hardware and more money on backup hardware).