From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S932079Ab1KGL5X (ORCPT ); Mon, 7 Nov 2011 06:57:23 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:50332 "EHLO mx1.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1754835Ab1KGL5W (ORCPT ); Mon, 7 Nov 2011 06:57:22 -0500 Message-ID: <4EB7C82A.6020905@redhat.com> Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 12:59:38 +0100 From: Kevin Wolf User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:7.0) Gecko/20110927 Thunderbird/7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Enberg CC: "Ted Ts'o" , Anthony Liguori , Avi Kivity , Pekka Enberg , "kvm@vger.kernel.org list" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List" , qemu-devel Developers , Alexander Graf , Blue Swirl , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Am=E9rico_Wang?= , Ingo Molnar , Linus Torvalds Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH] KVM: Add wrapper script around QEMU to test kernels References: <4EB67486.1070105@redhat.com> <4EB67D17.7000701@redhat.com> <4EB680D9.2070706@redhat.com> <4EB6AE34.2000907@redhat.com> <4EB6BAED.2030400@redhat.com> <4EB6BEFA.6000303@codemonkey.ws> <20111106183132.GA4500@thunk.org> <4EB7B375.4090904@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Am 07.11.2011 12:38, schrieb Pekka Enberg: > On Mon, 7 Nov 2011, Kevin Wolf wrote: >> Makes it a lot less hackable for me unless you want to restrict the set >> of potential developers to Linux kernel developers... > > We're not restricting potential developers to Linux kernel folks. We're > making it easy for them because we believe that the KVM tool is a > userspace component that requires the kind of low-level knowledge Linux > kernel developers have. > > I think you're looking at the KVM tool with your QEMU glasses on without > realizing that there's no point in comparing the two: we only support > Linux on Linux and we avoid hardware emulation as much as possible. So > what makes sense for QEMU, doesn't necessarily translate to the KVM tool > project. I'm not comparing anything. I'm not even referring to the virtualization functionality of it. It could be doing anything else and it wouldn't make a difference. For KVM tool I am not much more than a mere user. Trying it out was tedious for me, as it is for anyone else who isn't a kernel developer. That's all I'm saying. Making things easier for some kernel developers but ignoring that at the same time it makes things harder for users I consider a not so clever move. Just wanted to point that out; feel free to ignore it, your priorities are probably different. Kevin From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Kevin Wolf Subject: Re: [PATCH] KVM: Add wrapper script around QEMU to test kernels Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 12:59:38 +0100 Message-ID: <4EB7C82A.6020905@redhat.com> References: <4EB67486.1070105@redhat.com> <4EB67D17.7000701@redhat.com> <4EB680D9.2070706@redhat.com> <4EB6AE34.2000907@redhat.com> <4EB6BAED.2030400@redhat.com> <4EB6BEFA.6000303@codemonkey.ws> <20111106183132.GA4500@thunk.org> <4EB7B375.4090904@redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Alexander Graf , Ted Ts'o , "kvm@vger.kernel.org list" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List" , qemu-devel Developers , Pekka Enberg , Blue Swirl , Avi Kivity , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Am=E9rico_Wang?= , Ingo Molnar , Linus Torvalds To: Pekka Enberg Return-path: In-Reply-To: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+gceq-qemu-devel=gmane.org@nongnu.org Sender: qemu-devel-bounces+gceq-qemu-devel=gmane.org@nongnu.org List-Id: kvm.vger.kernel.org Am 07.11.2011 12:38, schrieb Pekka Enberg: > On Mon, 7 Nov 2011, Kevin Wolf wrote: >> Makes it a lot less hackable for me unless you want to restrict the set >> of potential developers to Linux kernel developers... > > We're not restricting potential developers to Linux kernel folks. We're > making it easy for them because we believe that the KVM tool is a > userspace component that requires the kind of low-level knowledge Linux > kernel developers have. > > I think you're looking at the KVM tool with your QEMU glasses on without > realizing that there's no point in comparing the two: we only support > Linux on Linux and we avoid hardware emulation as much as possible. So > what makes sense for QEMU, doesn't necessarily translate to the KVM tool > project. I'm not comparing anything. I'm not even referring to the virtualization functionality of it. It could be doing anything else and it wouldn't make a difference. For KVM tool I am not much more than a mere user. Trying it out was tedious for me, as it is for anyone else who isn't a kernel developer. That's all I'm saying. Making things easier for some kernel developers but ignoring that at the same time it makes things harder for users I consider a not so clever move. Just wanted to point that out; feel free to ignore it, your priorities are probably different. Kevin From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:50862) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RNNpI-0003gW-6C for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 06:57:21 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RNNpH-00053q-8e for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 06:57:20 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:60955) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RNNpH-00053c-1A for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 06:57:19 -0500 Message-ID: <4EB7C82A.6020905@redhat.com> Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 12:59:38 +0100 From: Kevin Wolf MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4EB67486.1070105@redhat.com> <4EB67D17.7000701@redhat.com> <4EB680D9.2070706@redhat.com> <4EB6AE34.2000907@redhat.com> <4EB6BAED.2030400@redhat.com> <4EB6BEFA.6000303@codemonkey.ws> <20111106183132.GA4500@thunk.org> <4EB7B375.4090904@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH] KVM: Add wrapper script around QEMU to test kernels List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: Pekka Enberg Cc: Alexander Graf , Ted Ts'o , "kvm@vger.kernel.org list" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List" , qemu-devel Developers , Pekka Enberg , Blue Swirl , Avi Kivity , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Am=E9rico_Wang?= , Ingo Molnar , Linus Torvalds Am 07.11.2011 12:38, schrieb Pekka Enberg: > On Mon, 7 Nov 2011, Kevin Wolf wrote: >> Makes it a lot less hackable for me unless you want to restrict the set >> of potential developers to Linux kernel developers... > > We're not restricting potential developers to Linux kernel folks. We're > making it easy for them because we believe that the KVM tool is a > userspace component that requires the kind of low-level knowledge Linux > kernel developers have. > > I think you're looking at the KVM tool with your QEMU glasses on without > realizing that there's no point in comparing the two: we only support > Linux on Linux and we avoid hardware emulation as much as possible. So > what makes sense for QEMU, doesn't necessarily translate to the KVM tool > project. I'm not comparing anything. I'm not even referring to the virtualization functionality of it. It could be doing anything else and it wouldn't make a difference. For KVM tool I am not much more than a mere user. Trying it out was tedious for me, as it is for anyone else who isn't a kernel developer. That's all I'm saying. Making things easier for some kernel developers but ignoring that at the same time it makes things harder for users I consider a not so clever move. Just wanted to point that out; feel free to ignore it, your priorities are probably different. Kevin