From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1U3t88-0004yF-Hf for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:57:00 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45690) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U3t85-0004xC-KP for grub-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:56:59 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U3t84-00079S-BG for grub-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:56:57 -0500 Received: from mail-ob0-f170.google.com ([209.85.214.170]:34738) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U3t84-00079D-5x for grub-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 13:56:56 -0500 Received: by mail-ob0-f170.google.com with SMTP id wc20so4263267obb.1 for ; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 10:56:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5hjLhOsRPpGBb2Jc2leyRWkkqF3rC3xx4DdWYWXYTvM=; b=B4Q9IksJexHxy+kZaBLkSAElravFcCXCb5Yu+5DQNXknpUqZJbROrdjHHQaCJoiPcc W19BpkP7ICCJXC1VeyWTVKeqEeT92x/Zb/Vr9wYlnNOM6iaBbKfs0tXosl2KaeFV+k2Z e7Bo/b/+1ErTCWFkw88B0WrRZvKGS2DU30sr3ohaRtERAs6+dAoyhc/jFJ4G4AoA9ccZ u9ZYAl+TjZQnaPkV2RvDQtbzaE8v+NcvZAKTFzTQzRgcUN4lxkUtCHdRZJ5EQK6CapU+ K+cp+RjHe0ZTWxR3oDKt3L283Wu+Urp/1fIAc26CzC80BaHBSX/wMkxLhMHS1CqeCMcs yDaA== X-Received: by 10.60.32.50 with SMTP id f18mr5155878oei.8.1360349814820; Fri, 08 Feb 2013 10:56:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.75] (cpe-70-123-218-92.satx.res.rr.com. [70.123.218.92]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j10sm19957493oee.4.2013.02.08.10.56.53 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 08 Feb 2013 10:56:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <51154A74.3000302@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 12:56:52 -0600 From: Bruce Dubbs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120628 Firefox/13.0.1 SeaMonkey/2.10.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: The development of GNU GRUB Subject: Re: GRUB and the risk of block list corruption in extX References: <51138645.4050405@ts.fujitsu.com> <51153345.2020509@ts.fujitsu.com> <20130208184239.GA20462@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> In-Reply-To: <20130208184239.GA20462@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.214.170 X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: The development of GNU GRUB List-Id: The development of GNU GRUB List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 18:56:59 -0000 Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Feb 08, 2013 at 06:17:57PM +0100, Martin Wilck wrote: >> In my case, the reason is a multiboot setup based on chainloading the >> indiviual installed OS's bootloaders from a central, primary bootloader. >> This is easily accomplished by installing the individual OS's >> bootloaders in their respective "/" or "/boot" partitions. Linux >> distributions have encouraged this kind of setup over several years - >> "install boot loader in first sector of root/boot partition" used to be >> a prominent option somewhere in the installation process (these >> distributions were usually GRUB 0.9x based - GRUB 0.9x developers didn't >> seem to have a big issue with stage1_5 being loaded via block lists). >> >> Recent GRUB2-based distributions like Fedora have removed this option, >> and some users are dissatisfied with that. I would like to understand >> what the actual risk is. So I'd appreciate examples for the "pretty >> serious problems" you mention. > > grub 2 has a lot more features, is a lot bigger, and might not fit in > your embedding area of some filesystems. > > Of course the block list breaks if the file in the filesystem is modified > or moved without updating the block list, which used to break lilo all the > time whenever one forgot to run the lilo command after making a change. > Sure grub 0.9x was a bit less fragile than lilo, but block lists for > files that could potentially be changed is fragile. > > Embedding enough of grub in the first track or a boot partition (as EFI > systems support, as do a number of non x86 architectures) gives a much > more reliable system since it can read anything else it needs using the > filesystem and hence doesn't break if files are changed. You don't need an EFI system to give GRUB enough space. You just need to partition the drive so the first partition starts at 1MB instead of sector 63. I think using a GPT partition scheme is quite preferred over the MSDOS scheme designed 30 years ago. I will note that this causes problems for some systems, but I haven't seen it since I don't do windows. -- Bruce