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Thu, 30 Apr 2020 11:29:21 +0100 To: Markus Armbruster , Peter Maydell References: <87mu6uia5i.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <20200429155719.GL1495129@redhat.com> <87k11xh2kq.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <87tv11e1en.fsf_-_@dusky.pond.sub.org> From: Mark Cave-Ayland Autocrypt: addr=mark.cave-ayland@ilande.co.uk; keydata= mQENBFQJuzwBCADAYvxrwUh1p/PvUlNFwKosVtVHHplgWi5p29t58QlOUkceZG0DBYSNqk93 3JzBTbtd4JfFcSupo6MNNOrCzdCbCjZ64ik8ycaUOSzK2tKbeQLEXzXoaDL1Y7vuVO7nL9bG E5Ru3wkhCFc7SkoypIoAUqz8EtiB6T89/D9TDEyjdXUacc53R5gu8wEWiMg5MQQuGwzbQy9n PFI+mXC7AaEUqBVc2lBQVpAYXkN0EyqNNT12UfDLdxaxaFpUAE2pCa2LTyo5vn5hEW+i3VdN PkmjyPvL6DdY03fvC01PyY8zaw+UI94QqjlrDisHpUH40IUPpC/NB0LwzL2aQOMkzT2NABEB AAG0ME1hcmsgQ2F2ZS1BeWxhbmQgPG1hcmsuY2F2ZS1heWxhbmRAaWxhbmRlLmNvLnVrPokB OAQTAQIAIgUCVAm7PAIbAwYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQW8LFb64PMh9f NAgAuc3ObOEY8NbZko72AGrg2tWKdybcMVITxmcor4hb9155o/OWcA4IDbeATR6cfiDL/oxU mcmtXVgPqOwtW3NYAKr5g/FrZZ3uluQ2mtNYAyTFeALy8YF7N3yhs7LOcpbFP7tEbkSzoXNG z8iYMiYtKwttt40WaheWuRs0ZOLbs6yoczZBDhna3Nj0LA3GpeJKlaV03O4umjKJgACP1c/q T2Pkg+FCBHHFP454+waqojHp4OCBo6HyK+8I4wJRa9Z0EFqXIu8lTDYoggeX0Xd6bWeCFHK3 DhD0/Xi/kegSW33unsp8oVcM4kcFxTkpBgj39dB4KwAUznhTJR0zUHf63LkBDQRUCbs8AQgA y7kyevA4bpetM/EjtuqQX4U05MBhEz/2SFkX6IaGtTG2NNw5wbcAfhOIuNNBYbw6ExuaJ3um 2uLseHnudmvN4VSJ5Hfbd8rhqoMmmO71szgT/ZD9MEe2KHzBdmhmhxJdp+zQNivy215j6H27 14mbC2dia7ktwP1rxPIX1OOfQwPuqlkmYPuVwZP19S4EYnCELOrnJ0m56tZLn5Zj+1jZX9Co YbNLMa28qsktYJ4oU4jtn6V79H+/zpERZAHmH40IRXdR3hA+Ye7iC/ZpWzT2VSDlPbGY9Yja Sp7w2347L5G+LLbAfaVoejHlfy/msPeehUcuKjAdBLoEhSPYzzdvEQARAQABiQEfBBgBAgAJ BQJUCbs8AhsMAAoJEFvCxW+uDzIfabYIAJXmBepHJpvCPiMNEQJNJ2ZSzSjhic84LTMWMbJ+ opQgr5cb8SPQyyb508fc8b4uD8ejlF/cdbbBNktp3BXsHlO5BrmcABgxSP8HYYNsX0n9kERv NMToU0oiBuAaX7O/0K9+BW+3+PGMwiu5ml0cwDqljxfVN0dUBZnQ8kZpLsY+WDrIHmQWjtH+ Ir6VauZs5Gp25XLrL6bh/SL8aK0BX6y79m5nhfKI1/6qtzHAjtMAjqy8ChPvOqVVVqmGUzFg KPsrrIoklWcYHXPyMLj9afispPVR8e0tMKvxzFBWzrWX1mzljbBlnV2n8BIwVXWNbgwpHSsj imgcU9TTGC5qd9g= Message-ID: <51a4e9ea-eca3-6c1d-a753-86c5810ac094@ilande.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 11:29:05 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87tv11e1en.fsf_-_@dusky.pond.sub.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 86.140.11.65 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: mark.cave-ayland@ilande.co.uk Subject: Re: Configuring onboard devices (was: Failing property setters + hardwired devices + -global = a bad day) X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Wed, 08 May 2019 21:11:16 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mail.default.ilande.uk0.bigv.io) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:41c9:1:41f::167; envelope-from=mark.cave-ayland@ilande.co.uk; helo=mail.default.ilande.uk0.bigv.io X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2001:41c9:1:41f::167 X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Kevin Wolf , =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_P=2e_Berrang=c3=a9?= , Eduardo Habkost , Jason Wang , QEMU Developers , Max Reitz , Paolo Bonzini , =?UTF-8?Q?Marc-Andr=c3=a9_Lureau?= Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On 30/04/2020 11:03, Markus Armbruster wrote: > Peter Maydell writes: > >> On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 08:09, Markus Armbruster wrote: >>> Our means to configure onboard devices are weak. We sidestepped this >>> for isa-fdc by taking it off the board, and thus make -device work. >> >> This seems to be a general dynamic: the x86 pc machine works >> via -device options (or is changed so it can work that way); >> and then people propose dropping/deprecating/etc the config >> options that work with onboard devices, without providing >> clear solutions/instructions on how the command line needs >> to change/etc for the mass of boards which are not the x86 >> pc machine and which do have a lot of onboard devices which >> can't be handled via -device. >> >> So my gut reaction to the "we should deprecate -global" >> suggestions in this thread was a bit "here we go again"... >> What works for x86 or even "what is sufficient for libvirt" >> doesn't necessarily cover all the cases. > > Such shortsighted proposals have been made, but don't think it's what > we're doing here. > > You're 100% right in that we do need to configure onboard devices. > -global is a terrible way to do it, though: it applies to *all* devices > of a kind. What if the board has more than one? What if the can add > more? > > Taking onboard devices off the board can occasionally sidestep the > issue. For isa-fdc, we genuinely *wanted* to take the damn thing off, > because all it did for most users was provide them with VENOM. Not > needing -global for it anymore was just a nice bonus. > > Taking onboard devices off just to reduce the device configuration > problem to a solved one, namely -device, may be tempting (it was to me), > but it's too intrusive to be practical at scale. > > Adding machine properties that alias onboard device properties is less > intrusive. The ones I added were still a lot of work. > > Configuring onboard devices via machine properties restricts property > access to the ones we added to the machine. This differs from pluggable > devices, where users can access all properties. > > Any better ideas for letting users configure onboard devices? Is it possible to let machine owners add alias properties to the machine object referencing in-built devices? I could then instantiate my on-board nic in the machine init() function, and then use object_property_add_alias() to add a "nic0" alias on the machine that can be used to wire it up to a netdev using the command line. ATB, Mark.