From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ig0-f173.google.com ([209.85.213.173]:33474 "EHLO mail-ig0-f173.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1753835AbbJPMr1 (ORCPT ); Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:47:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 8/9] vfs: Add vfs_copy_file_range() support for pagecache copies To: Christoph Hellwig , P??draig Brady References: <20151012231749.GC11398@birch.djwong.org> <561E980C.9010509@Netapp.com> <20151014182701.GC31225@infradead.org> <561EA83E.8080000@gmail.com> <20151015063621.GA3025@infradead.org> <561F9B13.7020804@gmail.com> <20151016053808.GA29510@infradead.org> <5620E3A1.90408@gmail.com> <5620E74F.50006@draigBrady.com> <20151016122453.GB5889@infradead.org> Cc: Andy Lutomirski , Anna Schumaker , "Darrick J. Wong" , linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, Linux btrfs Developers List , Linux FS Devel , Linux API , Zach Brown , Al Viro , Chris Mason , Michael Kerrisk-manpages , andros@netapp.com From: Austin S Hemmelgarn Message-ID: <5620F1AF.2000604@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:46:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20151016122453.GB5889@infradead.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-512; boundary="------------ms070409050007070909070908" Sender: linux-btrfs-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070409050007070909070908 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2015-10-16 08:24, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 01:02:23PM +0100, P??draig Brady wrote: >> Right. reflinking is transparent to the user, though its consequences = are not. >> Consequences being the possible extra latency or ENOSPC on CoW. > > You can get all these consequences without doing the file system reflin= k > by using a COW file system, any dedup scheme or thinly provisioned or > COW storage devices. > >> Therefore reflinking should be an explicit action/flag IMHO. > > This still does not make any sense, as it only prevents one of many > ways a file could do COW operations underneath. If you don't want > ENOSPC use fallocate, or the proposed COPY_FALLOC flag. If you want > care about latency you need to carefull benchmark your setup but in > general falloc / COPY_FALLOC might be a good starting point. But for > 99% of the copies a reflink is exactly the right thing to do. There is at least one reason other than avoiding ENOSPC and minimizing=20 latency that people may want to avoid reflinking things: They actually=20 _want_ multiple physically independent copies of the same file on the=20 disk. Usually people do go about this wrong (some people I know don't=20 understand that having multiple copies of a file on the same filesystem=20 provides no greater safety than one copy), but that doesn't mean that=20 this isn't a perfectly valid use case for copying a file. --------------ms070409050007070909070908 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgMFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC Brgwgga0MIIEnKADAgECAgMRLfgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQENBQAweTEQMA4GA1UEChMHUm9vdCBD QTEeMBwGA1UECxMVaHR0cDovL3d3dy5jYWNlcnQub3JnMSIwIAYDVQQDExlDQSBDZXJ0IFNp Z25pbmcgQXV0aG9yaXR5MSEwHwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhJzdXBwb3J0QGNhY2VydC5vcmcwHhcN MTUwOTIxMTEzNTEzWhcNMTYwMzE5MTEzNTEzWjBjMRgwFgYDVQQDEw9DQWNlcnQgV29UIFVz ZXIxIzAhBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWFGFoZmVycm9pbjdAZ21haWwuY29tMSIwIAYJKoZIhvcNAQkB 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Fri, 16 Oct 2015 08:46:39 -0400 Message-ID: <5620F1AF.2000604@gmail.com> References: <20151012231749.GC11398@birch.djwong.org> <561E980C.9010509@Netapp.com> <20151014182701.GC31225@infradead.org> <561EA83E.8080000@gmail.com> <20151015063621.GA3025@infradead.org> <561F9B13.7020804@gmail.com> <20151016053808.GA29510@infradead.org> <5620E3A1.90408@gmail.com> <5620E74F.50006@draigBrady.com> <20151016122453.GB5889@infradead.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-512; boundary="------------ms070409050007070909070908" Cc: Andy Lutomirski , Anna Schumaker , "Darrick J. Wong" , linux-nfs-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org, Linux btrfs Developers List , Linux FS Devel , Linux API , Zach Brown , Al Viro , Chris Mason , Michael Kerrisk-manpages , andros-HgOvQuBEEgTQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org To: Christoph Hellwig , P??draig Brady Return-path: In-Reply-To: <20151016122453.GB5889-wEGCiKHe2LqWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org> Sender: linux-nfs-owner-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org List-Id: linux-fsdevel.vger.kernel.org This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070409050007070909070908 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2015-10-16 08:24, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > On Fri, Oct 16, 2015 at 01:02:23PM +0100, P??draig Brady wrote: >> Right. reflinking is transparent to the user, though its consequences = are not. >> Consequences being the possible extra latency or ENOSPC on CoW. > > You can get all these consequences without doing the file system reflin= k > by using a COW file system, any dedup scheme or thinly provisioned or > COW storage devices. > >> Therefore reflinking should be an explicit action/flag IMHO. > > This still does not make any sense, as it only prevents one of many > ways a file could do COW operations underneath. If you don't want > ENOSPC use fallocate, or the proposed COPY_FALLOC flag. If you want > care about latency you need to carefull benchmark your setup but in > general falloc / COPY_FALLOC might be a good starting point. But for > 99% of the copies a reflink is exactly the right thing to do. There is at least one reason other than avoiding ENOSPC and minimizing=20 latency that people may want to avoid reflinking things: They actually=20 _want_ multiple physically independent copies of the same file on the=20 disk. Usually people do go about this wrong (some people I know don't=20 understand that having multiple copies of a file on the same filesystem=20 provides no greater safety than one copy), but that doesn't mean that=20 this isn't a perfectly valid use case for copying a file. --------------ms070409050007070909070908 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgMFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC Brgwgga0MIIEnKADAgECAgMRLfgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQENBQAweTEQMA4GA1UEChMHUm9vdCBD QTEeMBwGA1UECxMVaHR0cDovL3d3dy5jYWNlcnQub3JnMSIwIAYDVQQDExlDQSBDZXJ0IFNp Z25pbmcgQXV0aG9yaXR5MSEwHwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhJzdXBwb3J0QGNhY2VydC5vcmcwHhcN MTUwOTIxMTEzNTEzWhcNMTYwMzE5MTEzNTEzWjBjMRgwFgYDVQQDEw9DQWNlcnQgV29UIFVz ZXIxIzAhBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWFGFoZmVycm9pbjdAZ21haWwuY29tMSIwIAYJKoZIhvcNAQkB FhNhaGVtbWVsZ0BvaGlvZ3QuY29tMIICIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAg8AMIICCgKCAgEA nQ/81tq0QBQi5w316VsVNfjg6kVVIMx760TuwA1MUaNQgQ3NyUl+UyFtjhpkNwwChjgAqfGd LIMTHAdObcwGfzO5uI2o1a8MHVQna8FRsU3QGouysIOGQlX8jFYXMKPEdnlt0GoQcd+BtESr pivbGWUEkPs1CwM6WOrs+09bAJP3qzKIr0VxervFrzrC5Dg9Rf18r9WXHElBuWHg4GYHNJ2V Ab8iKc10h44FnqxZK8RDN8ts/xX93i9bIBmHnFfyNRfiOUtNVeynJbf6kVtdHP+CRBkXCNRZ qyQT7gbTGD24P92PS2UTmDfplSBcWcTn65o3xWfesbf02jF6PL3BCrVnDRI4RgYxG3zFBJuG qvMoEODLhHKSXPAyQhwZINigZNdw5G1NqjXqUw+lIqdQvoPijK9J3eijiakh9u2bjWOMaleI SMRR6XsdM2O5qun1dqOrCgRkM0XSNtBQ2JjY7CycIx+qifJWsRaYWZz0aQU4ZrtAI7gVhO9h pyNaAGjvm7PdjEBiXq57e4QcgpwzvNlv8pG1c/hnt0msfDWNJtl3b6elhQ2Pz4w/QnWifZ8E BrFEmjeeJa2dqjE3giPVWrsH+lOvQQONsYJOuVb8b0zao4vrWeGmW2q2e3pdv0Axzm/60cJQ haZUv8+JdX9ZzqxOm5w5eUQSclt84u+D+hsCAwEAAaOCAVkwggFVMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAw VgYJYIZIAYb4QgENBEkWR1RvIGdldCB5b3VyIG93biBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBmb3IgRlJFRSBo ZWFkIG92ZXIgdG8gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5DQWNlcnQub3JnMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIDqDBABgNV HSUEOTA3BggrBgEFBQcDBAYIKwYBBQUHAwIGCisGAQQBgjcKAwQGCisGAQQBgjcKAwMGCWCG SAGG+EIEATAyBggrBgEFBQcBAQQmMCQwIgYIKwYBBQUHMAGGFmh0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLmNhY2Vy dC5vcmcwMQYDVR0fBCowKDAmoCSgIoYgaHR0cDovL2NybC5jYWNlcnQub3JnL3Jldm9rZS5j cmwwNAYDVR0RBC0wK4EUYWhmZXJyb2luN0BnbWFpbC5jb22BE2FoZW1tZWxnQG9oaW9ndC5j b20wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQENBQADggIBADMnxtSLiIunh/TQcjnRdf63yf2D8jMtYUm4yDoCF++J jCXbPQBGrpCEHztlNSGIkF3PH7ohKZvlqF4XePWxpY9dkr/pNyCF1PRkwxUURqvuHXbu8Lwn 8D3U2HeOEU3KmrfEo65DcbanJCMTTW7+mU9lZICPP7ZA9/zB+L0Gm1UNFZ6AU50N/86vjQfY WgkCd6dZD4rQ5y8L+d/lRbJW7ZGEQw1bSFVTRpkxxDTOwXH4/GpQfnfqTAtQuJ1CsKT12e+H NSD/RUWGTr289dA3P4nunBlz7qfvKamxPymHeBEUcuICKkL9/OZrnuYnGROFwcdvfjGE5iLB kjp/ttrY4aaVW5EsLASNgiRmA6mbgEAMlw3RwVx0sVelbiIAJg9Twzk4Ct6U9uBKiJ8S0sS2 8RCSyTmCRhJs0vvva5W9QUFGmp5kyFQEoSfBRJlbZfGX2ehI2Hi3U2/PMUm2ONuQG1E+a0AP u7I0NJc/Xil7rqR0gdbfkbWp0a+8dAvaM6J00aIcNo+HkcQkUgtfrw+C2Oyl3q8IjivGXZqT 5UdGUb2KujLjqjG91Dun3/RJ/qgQlotH7WkVBs7YJVTCxfkdN36rToPcnMYOI30FWa0Q06gn F6gUv9/mo6riv3A5bem/BdbgaJoPnWQD9D8wSyci9G4LKC+HQAMdLmGoeZfpJzKHMYIE0TCC BM0CAQEwgYAweTEQMA4GA1UEChMHUm9vdCBDQTEeMBwGA1UECxMVaHR0cDovL3d3dy5jYWNl cnQub3JnMSIwIAYDVQQDExlDQSBDZXJ0IFNpZ25pbmcgQXV0aG9yaXR5MSEwHwYJKoZIhvcN AQkBFhJzdXBwb3J0QGNhY2VydC5vcmcCAxEt+DANBglghkgBZQMEAgMFAKCCAiEwGAYJKoZI hvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTUxMDE2MTI0NjM5WjBPBgkq hkiG9w0BCQQxQgRAjf4zkAT++c7iWc0jpzRo2brQ3Fmmzut88p30rejTB9427VwM1rBCZBut onxvl/Zz6sf/UGRWYxV1L0XlO8b1XDBsBgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8xXzBdMAsGCWCGSAFlAwQBKjAL BglghkgBZQMEAQIwCgYIKoZIhvcNAwcwDgYIKoZIhvcNAwICAgCAMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgFA MAcGBSsOAwIHMA0GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgEoMIGRBgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxgYMwgYAweTEQMA4GA1UE ChMHUm9vdCBDQTEeMBwGA1UECxMVaHR0cDovL3d3dy5jYWNlcnQub3JnMSIwIAYDVQQDExlD QSBDZXJ0IFNpZ25pbmcgQXV0aG9yaXR5MSEwHwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhJzdXBwb3J0QGNhY2Vy dC5vcmcCAxEt+DCBkwYLKoZIhvcNAQkQAgsxgYOggYAweTEQMA4GA1UEChMHUm9vdCBDQTEe MBwGA1UECxMVaHR0cDovL3d3dy5jYWNlcnQub3JnMSIwIAYDVQQDExlDQSBDZXJ0IFNpZ25p bmcgQXV0aG9yaXR5MSEwHwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhJzdXBwb3J0QGNhY2VydC5vcmcCAxEt+DAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAgCLkPqOy150OrCKHsLAvd0ROAFWT0WT5eB5OcPLunjJRS7VZn+h G+p0IbSqY/W76iaERsnxzcvMkZxzD17H3Ms7fw8nkhoBc2NweMfQzzl+5i1Nj3QU3LFz4TmG d6qYjaNpDQEkLAEgEWbRo1zU+HFXlljFIt9jBHHc0xjwL4VIUJrbwcYq/mJx79TxVcMXJBmF pTI4jOWU7KDcBV0ODXXGYOMNx7H7QNeTUZO2rkZv3AR52f+5gkGED9cLzHUoP8vRnZuA7UH6 XDVbzdKNulRApSviWIftlPAgFYRBIi1Tr+5/K59RHaIYgX5ouGWapTbbUKdIjnCb2rbPxnrd pP70rGh66/O670PNaQwPrTVWHu7MjpS13Be+bd6C4kBDKr3w3s65DMVelZ2/Mo6duL5uzwdG j0eqX90Xh7BKxFKZWL5psAvx5rNZhELJ3M4uwZ9Lgd5Xbg6HjVvcpts6r4IUTmBL2iv6BZFC C/kONMNiI5Y3Q8zjc7QWEEmoprVjT5L9ZmOjST7NzLcbEWuuqqjn6UgvJNSHD4SqH95S0I6o G7m/kQLotWOhSLreisuR1QZCXs32prUlLXQJZrxdPont88a4IoI2FGQ1GD/rmDLDnxgzZZDq ghE/gWVgsw2b4bNHrq8uMzg+hHudXUVZBsKHFlY67LD4Qjm9BW5zKB7urwAAAAAAAA== --------------ms070409050007070909070908-- -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-nfs" in the body of a message to majordomo-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html