From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8650CC433E2 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:00:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C11FC20776 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:00:07 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=boo.tc header.i=@boo.tc header.b="aVKAofFt"; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com header.b="Vflw3gHW" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1731211AbgFPSAG (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:00:06 -0400 Received: from new1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.221]:37745 "EHLO new1-smtp.messagingengine.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1727083AbgFPSAF (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:00:05 -0400 Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailnew.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF51258027E; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:00:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=boo.tc; h= subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm3; bh=W K4JaLWYbo7txUBZY+FCSU3GLstd9cPvWcMBaGJr3nE=; b=aVKAofFtzCa5gI6mc Th0FzfvwxeMhpKkpgocaoFXWMcsKKUgFgYpGA88jW9s5PaDhGQe4GWzXd/vHmEua lT7pb2FdO6VBhiXRkjC6lleFdw//9+7arTNZf5YtGxPUY4pqdBhw6/lFNEeqGch8 T+ZizTzfvJ7P146VPbRwJ/EGTR7rdxuZ7DVrW0jCmq1DSk5OhSITKuW0EHa9TezK 2q1DVij7/VYoJOiQilRtIxznilDE39wCMG6mgmkYvJ6y6zm2LTFGzDCoApCFw/bU C8y9WzS67y8Mxn34ov8w2a3p9thBfXG/aSBMQcV5eKt5Ib2vufaz6szCNFfdKcNO KYqXQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=WK4JaLWYbo7txUBZY+FCSU3GLstd9cPvWcMBaGJr3 nE=; b=Vflw3gHWExDHUqNm9TIBMt9r9dXnWF1nw4gPi5V7YOTVx1ITtbh7GgDc+ DAlvMwJ24dwV4n82ePizZn+NUwNMvj3LP1XToX52jWIt5nF/24wDC3qbLkzdbUti JKyUP2WTDvmatC6WYj8yV6GqJkvxQBo2eRZahLO7/tdkdoBQfUXD0h0WNTDcr1P0 eAWNuRFBy5RihbQp4AJD3c3JF5sz7PpWQ1uoqMFbGJK0jQftO2BmFDJi3DU5+TI/ B42rK0ncFb7+zJdUOCVy1K6WZ78vcdyWKD/B1TxGEWLF1T/f3hhCzLX+xKNFba4r tD8i+YlriVNwbeLkbw5QX5GjDbkDw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrudejtddguddvfecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enfghrlhcuvffnffculddvhedmnecujfgurhepuffvfhfhkffffgggjggtgfesthejredt tdefjeenucfhrhhomhepvehhrhhishcuuehoohhtuceosghoohhttgessghoohdrthgtqe enucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeetuefgvefhhfdugeetveekvdelhffhledvhfeuvdekfedu hffhvdehgefffeduvdenucffohhmrghinhepkhgvrhhnvghlrdhorhhgnecukfhppeekud drudekjedrheehrdelfeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgr ihhlfhhrohhmpegsohhothgtsegsohhordhttg X-ME-Proxy: Received: from heen.boo.tc (heen.boo.tc [81.187.55.93]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 4440730618C1; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:00:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [PATCH] scsi: target/sbp: remove firewire SBP target driver To: James Bottomley , Johannes Thumshirn , Bart Van Assche , Finn Thain Cc: "linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org" , "target-devel@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org" , "linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , Chuhong Yuan , "Martin K . Petersen" , Nicholas Bellinger , Stefan Richter References: <01020172acd3d10f-3964f076-a820-43fc-9494-3f3946e9b7b5-000000@eu-west-1.amazonses.com> <7ad14946-5c25-fc49-1e48-72d37a607832@boo.tc> <8da0c285-d707-a3d2-063e-472af5cc560f@boo.tc> <8cbab988-fba7-8e27-7faf-9f7aa36ca235@acm.org> <1592321667.4394.5.camel@HansenPartnership.com> From: Chris Boot Autocrypt: addr=bootc@boo.tc; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFL1FNgBEADf8jZGW5tZWPDpyx7oWq8L7KD9a2YM5bp48LJ9tXYEVD+j3EIJH3DlYMOh Lif5+XkMaHNAakXSbo41Sjf3ArYOz+ZNvpR3ln/kqYv/ntgbAstlWuWLxGJbjJuLxjSh1eU5 jn+XAr0OvQMO9DiwBN3Ocm5B6tkUNhasxOmdlAxef0FsK7Y5bbqxVjC5/3DHqbmDiJvdof4q 1z5SEpuzKLn5xmdU+kANurZekp0JqgprS8gSmDV3fpJa7gTmcX11ArAV4TbI5CmJgnv3u6Nf k8E6oLk7wDs6mKzutS1MMVtaWpOMYqbM8q/QFI+ICf5SGmvpvOTvgIxAC80RWTYaxZn0g6sQ BhnByDcXFk/YYncmbHBYRJBbb+Y5lRGJMiv7KIp0BzDHO2zcDqvAiC2mtEl+iDOC06vqMD+t YRMkjtDsHbB7TCEeFmeSrQddLfoce04cnl3AyY22Vp2J2GsfobdX2Jw1drBou9cUN7shpuCU cqcGEvpT6mRd6uIzbFNXkWp0wiQPKUzDJXlh/GiROtM/468Bbj9JsiIIv183iKw6fQJtMg5c 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wVzu2FjNtg8s3yoGCcmtUtDGFswNQukUkgHKSJzYJSPsR5d6oM+oV3QvtqWLkUq1KyI7h7wK 1QBDj3S+cCP/8Pe5l3n1B7V4SkVPBQs/H/ClB6o= Message-ID: <5e512185-45d1-61eb-9bec-91e9f9d53ea3@boo.tc> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 18:59:58 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1592321667.4394.5.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On 16/06/2020 16:34, James Bottomley wrote: > On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 14:13 +0000, Johannes Thumshirn wrote: >> On 16/06/2020 16:09, Bart Van Assche wrote: >>> On 2020-06-16 02:42, Finn Thain wrote: >>>> Martin said, "I'd appreciate a patch to remove it" >>>> >>>> And Bart said, "do you want to keep this driver in the kernel >>>> tree?" >>>> >>>> AFAICT both comments are quite ambiguous. I don't see an >>>> actionable request, just an expression of interest from people >>>> doing their jobs. >>>> >>>> Note well: there is no pay check associated with having a >>>> MAINTAINERS file >>>> entry. >>> >>> Hi Finn, >>> >>> As far as I know the sbp driver only has had one user ever and that >>> user is no longer user the sbp driver. So why to keep it in the >>> kernel tree? Restoring a kernel driver can be easy - the first step >>> is a "git revert". >> >> Why not move the driver to drivers/staging for 2 or 3 kernel releases >> and if noone steps up, delete it? > > Because that's pretty much the worst of all worlds: If the driver is > simply going orphaned it can stay where it is to avoid confusion. If > it's being removed, it's better to remove it from where it is because > that makes the patch to restore it easy to find. > > Chris, the thing is this: if this driver has just one user on a stable > distro who complains about its removal six months to two years from > now, Linus will descend on us from a great height (which won't matter > to you, since you'll be long gone). This makes everyone very wary of > outright removal. If you're really, really sure it has no users, it > can be deleted, but if there's the slightest chance it has just one, it > should get orphaned. My patch to delete the driver was based on Martin's original request: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/yq1img99d4k.fsf@ca-mkp.ca.oracle.com/ I don't especially want it to be gone, nor can I be sure there are no users of what is as far as I can tell a working piece of code. I can tell you that I never hear about it (other than the odd patch), whereas I do get emails out of the blue for some of my other (much smaller) stuff which clearly has users. I'd be just as happy for this to be orphaned or for nothing to happen to it. Honestly, I am totally ambivalent as to what happens to this code. Martin, however, clearly cares enough to have asked me to supply a patch to remove it. Cheers, Chris -- Chris Boot bootc@boo.tc From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Chris Boot Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:59:58 +0000 Subject: Re: [PATCH] scsi: target/sbp: remove firewire SBP target driver Message-Id: <5e512185-45d1-61eb-9bec-91e9f9d53ea3@boo.tc> List-Id: References: <01020172acd3d10f-3964f076-a820-43fc-9494-3f3946e9b7b5-000000@eu-west-1.amazonses.com> <7ad14946-5c25-fc49-1e48-72d37a607832@boo.tc> <8da0c285-d707-a3d2-063e-472af5cc560f@boo.tc> <8cbab988-fba7-8e27-7faf-9f7aa36ca235@acm.org> <1592321667.4394.5.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: <1592321667.4394.5.camel@HansenPartnership.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: James Bottomley , Johannes Thumshirn , Bart Van Assche , Finn Thain Cc: "linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org" , "target-devel@vger.kernel.org" , "linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org" , "linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net" , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , Chuhong Yuan , "Martin K . Petersen" , Nicholas Bellinger , Stefan Richter On 16/06/2020 16:34, James Bottomley wrote: > On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 14:13 +0000, Johannes Thumshirn wrote: >> On 16/06/2020 16:09, Bart Van Assche wrote: >>> On 2020-06-16 02:42, Finn Thain wrote: >>>> Martin said, "I'd appreciate a patch to remove it" >>>> >>>> And Bart said, "do you want to keep this driver in the kernel >>>> tree?" >>>> >>>> AFAICT both comments are quite ambiguous. I don't see an >>>> actionable request, just an expression of interest from people >>>> doing their jobs. >>>> >>>> Note well: there is no pay check associated with having a >>>> MAINTAINERS file >>>> entry. >>> >>> Hi Finn, >>> >>> As far as I know the sbp driver only has had one user ever and that >>> user is no longer user the sbp driver. So why to keep it in the >>> kernel tree? Restoring a kernel driver can be easy - the first step >>> is a "git revert". >> >> Why not move the driver to drivers/staging for 2 or 3 kernel releases >> and if noone steps up, delete it? > > Because that's pretty much the worst of all worlds: If the driver is > simply going orphaned it can stay where it is to avoid confusion. If > it's being removed, it's better to remove it from where it is because > that makes the patch to restore it easy to find. > > Chris, the thing is this: if this driver has just one user on a stable > distro who complains about its removal six months to two years from > now, Linus will descend on us from a great height (which won't matter > to you, since you'll be long gone). This makes everyone very wary of > outright removal. If you're really, really sure it has no users, it > can be deleted, but if there's the slightest chance it has just one, it > should get orphaned. My patch to delete the driver was based on Martin's original request: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/yq1img99d4k.fsf@ca-mkp.ca.oracle.com/ I don't especially want it to be gone, nor can I be sure there are no users of what is as far as I can tell a working piece of code. I can tell you that I never hear about it (other than the odd patch), whereas I do get emails out of the blue for some of my other (much smaller) stuff which clearly has users. I'd be just as happy for this to be orphaned or for nothing to happen to it. Honestly, I am totally ambivalent as to what happens to this code. Martin, however, clearly cares enough to have asked me to supply a patch to remove it. 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target/sbp: remove firewire SBP target driver To: James Bottomley , Johannes Thumshirn , Bart Van Assche , Finn Thain References: <01020172acd3d10f-3964f076-a820-43fc-9494-3f3946e9b7b5-000000@eu-west-1.amazonses.com> <7ad14946-5c25-fc49-1e48-72d37a607832@boo.tc> <8da0c285-d707-a3d2-063e-472af5cc560f@boo.tc> <8cbab988-fba7-8e27-7faf-9f7aa36ca235@acm.org> <1592321667.4394.5.camel@HansenPartnership.com> From: Chris Boot Autocrypt: addr=bootc@boo.tc; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFL1FNgBEADf8jZGW5tZWPDpyx7oWq8L7KD9a2YM5bp48LJ9tXYEVD+j3EIJH3DlYMOh Lif5+XkMaHNAakXSbo41Sjf3ArYOz+ZNvpR3ln/kqYv/ntgbAstlWuWLxGJbjJuLxjSh1eU5 jn+XAr0OvQMO9DiwBN3Ocm5B6tkUNhasxOmdlAxef0FsK7Y5bbqxVjC5/3DHqbmDiJvdof4q 1z5SEpuzKLn5xmdU+kANurZekp0JqgprS8gSmDV3fpJa7gTmcX11ArAV4TbI5CmJgnv3u6Nf k8E6oLk7wDs6mKzutS1MMVtaWpOMYqbM8q/QFI+ICf5SGmvpvOTvgIxAC80RWTYaxZn0g6sQ BhnByDcXFk/YYncmbHBYRJBbb+Y5lRGJMiv7KIp0BzDHO2zcDqvAiC2mtEl+iDOC06vqMD+t YRMkjtDsHbB7TCEeFmeSrQddLfoce04cnl3AyY22Vp2J2GsfobdX2Jw1drBou9cUN7shpuCU 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Petersen" , "linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org" , Chuhong Yuan , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" , Nicholas Bellinger , "target-devel@vger.kernel.org" , "linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net" , "linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org" , Stefan Richter Errors-To: linuxppc-dev-bounces+linuxppc-dev=archiver.kernel.org@lists.ozlabs.org Sender: "Linuxppc-dev" On 16/06/2020 16:34, James Bottomley wrote: > On Tue, 2020-06-16 at 14:13 +0000, Johannes Thumshirn wrote: >> On 16/06/2020 16:09, Bart Van Assche wrote: >>> On 2020-06-16 02:42, Finn Thain wrote: >>>> Martin said, "I'd appreciate a patch to remove it" >>>> >>>> And Bart said, "do you want to keep this driver in the kernel >>>> tree?" >>>> >>>> AFAICT both comments are quite ambiguous. I don't see an >>>> actionable request, just an expression of interest from people >>>> doing their jobs. >>>> >>>> Note well: there is no pay check associated with having a >>>> MAINTAINERS file >>>> entry. >>> >>> Hi Finn, >>> >>> As far as I know the sbp driver only has had one user ever and that >>> user is no longer user the sbp driver. So why to keep it in the >>> kernel tree? Restoring a kernel driver can be easy - the first step >>> is a "git revert". >> >> Why not move the driver to drivers/staging for 2 or 3 kernel releases >> and if noone steps up, delete it? > > Because that's pretty much the worst of all worlds: If the driver is > simply going orphaned it can stay where it is to avoid confusion. If > it's being removed, it's better to remove it from where it is because > that makes the patch to restore it easy to find. > > Chris, the thing is this: if this driver has just one user on a stable > distro who complains about its removal six months to two years from > now, Linus will descend on us from a great height (which won't matter > to you, since you'll be long gone). This makes everyone very wary of > outright removal. If you're really, really sure it has no users, it > can be deleted, but if there's the slightest chance it has just one, it > should get orphaned. My patch to delete the driver was based on Martin's original request: https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/yq1img99d4k.fsf@ca-mkp.ca.oracle.com/ I don't especially want it to be gone, nor can I be sure there are no users of what is as far as I can tell a working piece of code. I can tell you that I never hear about it (other than the odd patch), whereas I do get emails out of the blue for some of my other (much smaller) stuff which clearly has users. I'd be just as happy for this to be orphaned or for nothing to happen to it. Honestly, I am totally ambivalent as to what happens to this code. Martin, however, clearly cares enough to have asked me to supply a patch to remove it. Cheers, Chris -- Chris Boot bootc@boo.tc