From: John Fastabend <john.fastabend@gmail.com> To: Jesper Dangaard Brouer <jbrouer@redhat.com>, Daniel Borkmann <daniel@iogearbox.net> Cc: "Maciej Fijalkowski" <maciej.fijalkowski@intel.com>, "Toke Høiland-Jørgensen" <toke@redhat.com>, alardam@gmail.com, magnus.karlsson@intel.com, bjorn.topel@intel.com, andrii.nakryiko@gmail.com, kuba@kernel.org, ast@kernel.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, davem@davemloft.net, john.fastabend@gmail.com, hawk@kernel.org, jonathan.lemon@gmail.com, bpf@vger.kernel.org, jeffrey.t.kirsher@intel.com, maciejromanfijalkowski@gmail.com, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, "Marek Majtyka" <marekx.majtyka@intel.com> Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 bpf 1/5] net: ethtool: add xdp properties flag set Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2020 12:52:22 -0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <5fce960682c41_5a96208e4@john-XPS-13-9370.notmuch> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20201207135433.41172202@carbon> Jesper Dangaard Brouer wrote: > On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 16:21:08 +0100 > Daniel Borkmann <daniel@iogearbox.net> wrote: > > > On 12/4/20 1:46 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: > > > On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 01:18:31PM +0100, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen wrote: > > >> alardam@gmail.com writes: > > >>> From: Marek Majtyka <marekx.majtyka@intel.com> > > >>> > > >>> Implement support for checking what kind of xdp functionality a netdev > > >>> supports. Previously, there was no way to do this other than to try > > >>> to create an AF_XDP socket on the interface or load an XDP program and see > > >>> if it worked. This commit changes this by adding a new variable which > > >>> describes all xdp supported functions on pretty detailed level: > > >> > > >> I like the direction this is going! :) > > (Me too, don't get discouraged by our nitpicking, keep working on this! :-)) > > > >> > > >>> - aborted > > >>> - drop > > >>> - pass > > >>> - tx > > > > I strongly think we should _not_ merge any native XDP driver patchset > > that does not support/implement the above return codes. > > I agree, with above statement. > > > Could we instead group them together and call this something like > > XDP_BASE functionality to not give a wrong impression? > > I disagree. I can accept that XDP_BASE include aborted+drop+pass. > > I think we need to keep XDP_TX action separate, because I think that > there are use-cases where the we want to disable XDP_TX due to end-user > policy or hardware limitations. How about we discover this at load time though. Meaning if the program doesn't use XDP_TX then the hardware can skip resource allocations for it. I think we could have verifier or extra pass discover the use of XDP_TX and then pass a bit down to driver to enable/disable TX caps. > > Use-case(1): Cloud-provider want to give customers (running VMs) ability > to load XDP program for DDoS protection (only), but don't want to allow > customer to use XDP_TX (that can implement LB or cheat their VM > isolation policy). Not following. What interface do they want to allow loading on? If its the VM interface then I don't see how it matters. From outside the VM there should be no way to discover if its done in VM or in tc or some other stack. If its doing some onloading/offloading I would assume they need to ensure the isolation, etc. is still maintained because you can't let one VMs program work on other VMs packets safely. So what did I miss, above doesn't make sense to me. > > Use-case(2): Disable XDP_TX on a driver to save hardware TX-queue > resources, as the use-case is only DDoS. Today we have this problem > with the ixgbe hardware, that cannot load XDP programs on systems with > more than 192 CPUs. The ixgbe issues is just a bug or missing-feature in my opinion. I think we just document that XDP_TX consumes resources and if users care they shouldn't use XD_TX in programs and in that case hardware should via program discovery not allocate the resource. This seems cleaner in my opinion then more bits for features. > > > > If this is properly documented that these are basic must-have > > _requirements_, then users and driver developers both know what the > > expectations are. > > We can still document that XDP_TX is a must-have requirement, when a > driver implements XDP. +1 > > > > >>> - redirect > > >> > > > -- > Best regards, > Jesper Dangaard Brouer > MSc.CS, Principal Kernel Engineer at Red Hat > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/brouer >
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: John Fastabend <john.fastabend@gmail.com> To: intel-wired-lan@osuosl.org Subject: [Intel-wired-lan] [PATCH v2 bpf 1/5] net: ethtool: add xdp properties flag set Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2020 12:52:22 -0800 [thread overview] Message-ID: <5fce960682c41_5a96208e4@john-XPS-13-9370.notmuch> (raw) In-Reply-To: <20201207135433.41172202@carbon> Jesper Dangaard Brouer wrote: > On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 16:21:08 +0100 > Daniel Borkmann <daniel@iogearbox.net> wrote: > > > On 12/4/20 1:46 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: > > > On Fri, Dec 04, 2020 at 01:18:31PM +0100, Toke H?iland-J?rgensen wrote: > > >> alardam at gmail.com writes: > > >>> From: Marek Majtyka <marekx.majtyka@intel.com> > > >>> > > >>> Implement support for checking what kind of xdp functionality a netdev > > >>> supports. Previously, there was no way to do this other than to try > > >>> to create an AF_XDP socket on the interface or load an XDP program and see > > >>> if it worked. This commit changes this by adding a new variable which > > >>> describes all xdp supported functions on pretty detailed level: > > >> > > >> I like the direction this is going! :) > > (Me too, don't get discouraged by our nitpicking, keep working on this! :-)) > > > >> > > >>> - aborted > > >>> - drop > > >>> - pass > > >>> - tx > > > > I strongly think we should _not_ merge any native XDP driver patchset > > that does not support/implement the above return codes. > > I agree, with above statement. > > > Could we instead group them together and call this something like > > XDP_BASE functionality to not give a wrong impression? > > I disagree. I can accept that XDP_BASE include aborted+drop+pass. > > I think we need to keep XDP_TX action separate, because I think that > there are use-cases where the we want to disable XDP_TX due to end-user > policy or hardware limitations. How about we discover this at load time though. Meaning if the program doesn't use XDP_TX then the hardware can skip resource allocations for it. I think we could have verifier or extra pass discover the use of XDP_TX and then pass a bit down to driver to enable/disable TX caps. > > Use-case(1): Cloud-provider want to give customers (running VMs) ability > to load XDP program for DDoS protection (only), but don't want to allow > customer to use XDP_TX (that can implement LB or cheat their VM > isolation policy). Not following. What interface do they want to allow loading on? If its the VM interface then I don't see how it matters. From outside the VM there should be no way to discover if its done in VM or in tc or some other stack. If its doing some onloading/offloading I would assume they need to ensure the isolation, etc. is still maintained because you can't let one VMs program work on other VMs packets safely. So what did I miss, above doesn't make sense to me. > > Use-case(2): Disable XDP_TX on a driver to save hardware TX-queue > resources, as the use-case is only DDoS. Today we have this problem > with the ixgbe hardware, that cannot load XDP programs on systems with > more than 192 CPUs. The ixgbe issues is just a bug or missing-feature in my opinion. I think we just document that XDP_TX consumes resources and if users care they shouldn't use XD_TX in programs and in that case hardware should via program discovery not allocate the resource. This seems cleaner in my opinion then more bits for features. > > > > If this is properly documented that these are basic must-have > > _requirements_, then users and driver developers both know what the > > expectations are. > > We can still document that XDP_TX is a must-have requirement, when a > driver implements XDP. +1 > > > > >>> - redirect > > >> > > > -- > Best regards, > Jesper Dangaard Brouer > MSc.CS, Principal Kernel Engineer at Red Hat > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/brouer >
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-12-07 20:53 UTC|newest] Thread overview: 120+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top 2020-12-04 10:28 [PATCH v2 bpf 0/5] New netdev feature flags for XDP alardam 2020-12-04 10:28 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " alardam 2020-12-04 10:28 ` [PATCH v2 bpf 1/5] net: ethtool: add xdp properties flag set alardam 2020-12-04 10:28 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " alardam 2020-12-04 12:18 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2020-12-04 12:18 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= 2020-12-04 12:46 ` Maciej Fijalkowski 2020-12-04 12:46 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Maciej Fijalkowski 2020-12-04 15:21 ` Daniel Borkmann 2020-12-04 15:21 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Daniel Borkmann 2020-12-04 17:20 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2020-12-04 17:20 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= 2020-12-04 22:19 ` Daniel Borkmann 2020-12-04 22:19 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Daniel Borkmann 2020-12-07 11:54 ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-07 11:54 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-07 12:08 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2020-12-07 12:08 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= 2020-12-07 12:03 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2020-12-07 12:03 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= 2020-12-07 12:54 ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-07 12:54 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-07 20:52 ` John Fastabend [this message] 2020-12-07 20:52 ` John Fastabend 2020-12-07 22:38 ` Saeed Mahameed 2020-12-07 22:38 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Saeed Mahameed 2020-12-07 23:07 ` Maciej Fijalkowski 2020-12-07 23:07 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Maciej Fijalkowski 2020-12-09 6:03 ` John Fastabend 2020-12-09 6:03 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " John Fastabend 2020-12-09 9:54 ` Maciej Fijalkowski 2020-12-09 9:54 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Maciej Fijalkowski 2020-12-09 11:52 ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-09 11:52 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-09 15:41 ` David Ahern 2020-12-09 15:41 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " David Ahern 2020-12-09 17:15 ` Saeed Mahameed 2020-12-09 17:15 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Saeed Mahameed 2020-12-10 3:34 ` David Ahern 2020-12-10 3:34 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " David Ahern 2020-12-10 6:48 ` Saeed Mahameed 2020-12-10 6:48 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Saeed Mahameed 2020-12-10 15:30 ` David Ahern 2020-12-10 15:30 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " David Ahern 2020-12-10 18:58 ` Saeed Mahameed 2020-12-10 18:58 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Saeed Mahameed 2021-01-05 11:56 ` Marek Majtyka 2021-01-05 11:56 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Marek Majtyka 2021-02-01 16:16 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2021-02-01 16:16 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= 2021-02-02 11:26 ` Marek Majtyka 2021-02-02 11:26 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Marek Majtyka 2021-02-02 12:05 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2021-02-02 12:05 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= 2021-02-02 19:34 ` Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-02 19:34 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-03 12:50 ` Marek Majtyka 2021-02-03 12:50 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Marek Majtyka 2021-02-03 17:02 ` Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-03 17:02 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-10 10:53 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2021-02-10 10:53 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= 2021-02-10 18:31 ` Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-10 18:31 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-10 22:52 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2021-02-10 22:52 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= 2021-02-12 1:26 ` Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-12 1:26 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Jakub Kicinski 2021-02-12 2:05 ` Alexei Starovoitov 2021-02-12 2:05 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Alexei Starovoitov 2021-02-12 7:02 ` Marek Majtyka 2021-02-12 7:02 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Marek Majtyka 2021-02-16 14:30 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2021-02-16 14:30 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= 2020-12-09 15:44 ` David Ahern 2020-12-09 15:44 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " David Ahern 2020-12-10 13:32 ` Explaining XDP redirect bulk size design (Was: [PATCH v2 bpf 1/5] net: ethtool: add xdp properties flag set) Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-10 13:32 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-10 14:14 ` Magnus Karlsson 2020-12-10 14:14 ` Magnus Karlsson 2020-12-10 17:30 ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-10 17:30 ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-10 19:20 ` Saeed Mahameed 2020-12-10 19:20 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Saeed Mahameed 2020-12-08 1:01 ` [PATCH v2 bpf 1/5] net: ethtool: add xdp properties flag set David Ahern 2020-12-08 1:01 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " David Ahern 2020-12-08 8:28 ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-08 8:28 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-08 11:58 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2020-12-08 11:58 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= 2020-12-09 5:50 ` John Fastabend 2020-12-09 5:50 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " John Fastabend 2020-12-09 10:26 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2020-12-09 10:26 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= 2020-12-08 9:00 ` Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-08 9:00 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Jesper Dangaard Brouer 2020-12-08 9:42 ` Daniel Borkmann 2020-12-08 9:42 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Daniel Borkmann 2020-12-04 12:57 ` Maciej Fijalkowski 2020-12-04 12:57 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Maciej Fijalkowski 2020-12-04 10:28 ` [PATCH v2 bpf 2/5] drivers/net: turn XDP properties on alardam 2020-12-04 10:28 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " alardam 2020-12-04 12:19 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2020-12-04 12:19 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= 2020-12-09 19:05 ` kernel test robot 2020-12-09 19:05 ` kernel test robot 2020-12-04 10:28 ` [PATCH v2 bpf 3/5] xsk: add usage of xdp properties flags alardam 2020-12-04 10:28 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " alardam 2020-12-04 10:29 ` [PATCH v2 bpf 4/5] xsk: add check for full support of XDP in bind alardam 2020-12-04 10:29 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " alardam 2020-12-04 10:29 ` [PATCH v2 bpf 5/5] ethtool: provide xdp info with XDP_PROPERTIES_GET alardam 2020-12-04 10:29 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " alardam 2020-12-04 17:20 ` [PATCH v2 bpf 0/5] New netdev feature flags for XDP Jakub Kicinski 2020-12-04 17:20 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Jakub Kicinski 2020-12-04 17:26 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2020-12-04 17:26 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= 2020-12-04 19:22 ` Jakub Kicinski 2020-12-04 19:22 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Jakub Kicinski 2020-12-07 12:04 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen 2020-12-07 12:04 ` [Intel-wired-lan] " Toke =?unknown-8bit?q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?=
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