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[189.209.26.110]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 65sm8680445otp.35.2020.12.27.09.06.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 27 Dec 2020 09:06:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 11:06:26 -0600 From: Felipe Contreras To: =?UTF-8?B?TWljaGFsIFN1Y2jDoW5law==?= , Felipe Contreras Cc: =?UTF-8?B?w4Z2YXIgQXJuZmrDtnLDsCBCamFybWFzb24=?= , git@vger.kernel.org, git@sfconservancy.org, Christian Couder , Jeff King , 'Junio C Hamano ' Message-ID: <5fe8bf127e45b_e22d2080@natae.notmuch> In-Reply-To: <20201227150737.GM6564@kitsune.suse.cz> References: <20201223061718.102779-1-felipe.contreras@gmail.com> <87wnx8uirn.fsf@evledraar.gmail.com> <5fe40778321c5_7855a20819@natae.notmuch> <20201227150737.GM6564@kitsune.suse.cz> Subject: Re: [PATCH] CODE_OF_CONDUCT: expect tolerance, not respect Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: git@vger.kernel.org Michal Such=C3=A1nek wrote: > > We would need to see which interpretation you are talking about. > > = > > One example to show the difference is that you are supposed to hold i= n > > high regard (respect) your parents, or the King, whereas in a Thanksg= iving dinner > > you are supposed to endure (tolerate) your uncle talking about conspi= racy > > theories. > > = > > These are of course culturally-specific examples. But I hope you get = the > > point. > = > This is rather sensitive issue. I think there are other two things that= > are often conflated: respect for views and opinions and respect for > people. Right, but the code of conduct talks about respecting views. > It is certainly true that respecting people cannot be enforced as much > as respecting opinions cannot be. However, it is shown that not behavin= g > respectfully to people stifles constructive discussion (eg. speech > against ad-hominem arguments). Indeed, but I don't think that has anything to do with freedom of speech... it's not constructive discussion because the main point is not being addressed. See Paul Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement [1]. > On the other hand, showing respect to useless views or ideas stifles > constructive discussion as well. Useless ideas should be pointed out as= > such and discarded. Yes, not all ideas should be tolerated in all forums. > The reason why respect to ideas is often part of code of conduct is > likely religion. There are precious few people who hold religious > beliefs and at the same time encourage scrutiny of religion. Not just religion, but any dogmatic belief. When you express you don't believe in an idea that somebody holds very dear, people take that as a personal attack, even though they shouldn't. What's more; when you provide arguments against such an idea, and they are actually good arguments, that creates cognitive dissonance, which is unconfortable to the person holding the idea. But that's what being part of an open society entails; your ideas are going to be challenged. That's actually a good thing. Ideas should not be protected. Cheers. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Graham%27s_Hierar= chy_of_Disagreement.svg -- = Felipe Contreras=