From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MENTIONS_GIT_HOSTING, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E07DC433E9 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:14:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA7564E92 for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 17:14:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S233571AbhBRRMz (ORCPT ); Thu, 18 Feb 2021 12:12:55 -0500 Received: from fgw21-4.mail.saunalahti.fi ([62.142.5.108]:65460 "EHLO fgw21-4.mail.saunalahti.fi" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S232319AbhBROe5 (ORCPT ); Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:34:57 -0500 X-Greylist: delayed 1088 seconds by postgrey-1.27 at vger.kernel.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:34:56 EST Received: from toshiba (85-156-79-75.elisa-laajakaista.fi [85.156.79.75]) by fgw21.mail.saunalahti.fi (Halon) with ESMTPSA id b7901546-71f3-11eb-9eb8-005056bdd08f; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 16:15:14 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <602E766F.758C74D8@users.sourceforge.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2021 16:15:11 +0200 From: Jari Ruusu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Willy Tarreau CC: Greg Kroah-Hartman , Scott Branden , Linux ARM , LKML , BCM Kernel Feedback Subject: Re: 5.10 LTS Kernel: 2 or 6 years? References: <8cf503db-ac4c-a546-13c0-aac6da5c073b@broadcom.com> <20210218113107.GA12547@1wt.eu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Willy Tarreau wrote: > The only set of fixes that can be trusted are the "official" stable > kernels, because they are the only ones that are approved by the patches > authors themselves. Adding more stuff on top of stable kernels is fine > (and done at your own risk), but randomly dropping stuff from stable > kernels just because you don't think you need that is totally non-sense > and must not be done anymore! This may be little bit off-topic... but stable kernel.org kernels can also bit-rot badly because of "selective" backporting... as in anything that does not apply cleanly gets dropped regardless of how critical they are. I will give you one example: Intel WiFi (iwlwifi) on 4.19.y kernel.org stable kernels is currently missing many critical locking fixes. As a result, that in-tree iwlwifi driver causes erratic behavior to random unrelated processes, and has been doing so for many months now. My not-so-politically correct opinion is that in-tree iwlwifi is completely FUBAR unless someone steps up to do professional quality backport of those locking fixes from upstream out-of-tree Intel version [1] [2] of the driver. For me only way to get properly working WiFi on my laptop computer is to compile that Intel out-of-tree version. Sad, but true. [1] https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/iwlwifi/core_release [2] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/iwlwifi/backport-iwlwifi.git/ -- Jari Ruusu 4096R/8132F189 12D6 4C3A DCDA 0AA4 27BD ACDF F073 3C80 8132 F189 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, MENTIONS_GIT_HOSTING,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74AD9C433DB for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 14:17:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 055DD64E4B for ; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 14:17:30 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 055DD64E4B Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=users.sourceforge.net Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=merlin.20170209; h=Sender:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:Cc:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post:List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:References:Subject:To:MIME-Version:From:Date: Message-ID:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:List-Owner; bh=xjiFWnsvWzmKbtLMxo2VhAcrOBc3KyZgym0kuy7T/1Q=; b=O5wbMFIDm8TMR8yQY1YbVWuZr Rhwk6mKS+mviTgqoI3yuVNhfbe2i62bjMJyExtDYF+h2jAzV09w//2hIM3bulDcFW5UdpsAMgg2sL fAMMlyFtDG/68kauxUdPRwoCqxWUVkHEXlpyzPdY6VCxi4hVU4IIWxCx+7jqhbF2SUbuZNm7lGe44 wYbmF1mpHjtZoxJPuKocmyr8Ahs4jHo3xDOtFfA0NVhLHyOu615l103nDOA9Vu7Aqczne4CYyElVm wr75EcefICNugnyV3LL/eGJNdFgxS7bFFu//FDGbGOpS8lCRIjxAuiTws1PFyU/9lyO0MKq0A2ooP /s+2PgNgA==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=merlin.infradead.org) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1lCk5W-0005vO-55; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 14:15:26 +0000 Received: from fgw21-4.mail.saunalahti.fi ([62.142.5.108]) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1lCk5T-0005um-FK for linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 14:15:24 +0000 Received: from toshiba (85-156-79-75.elisa-laajakaista.fi [85.156.79.75]) by fgw21.mail.saunalahti.fi (Halon) with ESMTPSA id b7901546-71f3-11eb-9eb8-005056bdd08f; Thu, 18 Feb 2021 16:15:14 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <602E766F.758C74D8@users.sourceforge.net> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2021 16:15:11 +0200 From: Jari Ruusu MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Willy Tarreau Subject: Re: 5.10 LTS Kernel: 2 or 6 years? References: <8cf503db-ac4c-a546-13c0-aac6da5c073b@broadcom.com> <20210218113107.GA12547@1wt.eu> X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20210218_091523_683249_7C9EE860 X-CRM114-Status: UNSURE ( 7.91 ) X-CRM114-Notice: Please train this message. X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Greg Kroah-Hartman , BCM Kernel Feedback , LKML , Linux ARM , Scott Branden Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org Willy Tarreau wrote: > The only set of fixes that can be trusted are the "official" stable > kernels, because they are the only ones that are approved by the patches > authors themselves. Adding more stuff on top of stable kernels is fine > (and done at your own risk), but randomly dropping stuff from stable > kernels just because you don't think you need that is totally non-sense > and must not be done anymore! This may be little bit off-topic... but stable kernel.org kernels can also bit-rot badly because of "selective" backporting... as in anything that does not apply cleanly gets dropped regardless of how critical they are. I will give you one example: Intel WiFi (iwlwifi) on 4.19.y kernel.org stable kernels is currently missing many critical locking fixes. As a result, that in-tree iwlwifi driver causes erratic behavior to random unrelated processes, and has been doing so for many months now. My not-so-politically correct opinion is that in-tree iwlwifi is completely FUBAR unless someone steps up to do professional quality backport of those locking fixes from upstream out-of-tree Intel version [1] [2] of the driver. For me only way to get properly working WiFi on my laptop computer is to compile that Intel out-of-tree version. Sad, but true. [1] https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/iwlwifi/core_release [2] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/iwlwifi/backport-iwlwifi.git/ -- Jari Ruusu 4096R/8132F189 12D6 4C3A DCDA 0AA4 27BD ACDF F073 3C80 8132 F189 _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel