[ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Hans Verkuil]

Hi all,

Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).

See here for more details about the conference:

https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/

Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
with any suggestions for topics!

Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.


I have two topics:

1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
   for improvements?

2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
   HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.

I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.

Regards,

	Hans

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Nicolas Dufresne]

Hi Hans,

Le vendredi 06 mai 2022 à 15:20 +0200, Hans Verkuil a écrit :
> Hi all,
> 
> Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
> I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
> 
> See here for more details about the conference:
> 
> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
> 
> Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
> with any suggestions for topics!
> 
> Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
> If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
> 
> 
> I have two topics:
> 
> 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
>    for improvements?
> 
> 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
>    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
> 
> I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
> or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.

Andrzej, Benjamin and I works on on stateless encoder, I'd be happy to introduce
the real-life challenges and the share around the direction we have in mind. We
want to collect various ideas and adjust our direction accordingly.

regards,
Nicolas

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Jacopo Mondi]

Hello Hans,

On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 03:20:09PM +0200, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
> I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
>
> See here for more details about the conference:
>
> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
>
> Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
> with any suggestions for topics!
>
> Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
> If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
>
>
> I have two topics:
>
> 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
>    for improvements?
>
> 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
>    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
>
> I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
> or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.

There are a few topics around image sensor support, especially
relevant for RAW sensor drivers

- Recently Dave posted an question about how to represent additional
  processing stages that happens on the sensor side, mostly
  additional subsampling/cropping that happen between the analogue cropping
  on the full pixel array and the final image sent on the wire.

  https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/CAPY8ntA06L1Xsph79sv9t7MiDSNeSO2vADevuXZdXQdhWpSmow@mail.gmail.com/

  Dave made a good introduction of the issue his email which got
  largely unanswered.

  The issue is particularly relevant for RAW sensors, where applying
  subsampling has an impact on the sensor's sensitivity and requires
  to adjust the gains and exposure accordingly.

  The V4L2 selection API falls short on this and the only other
  solution I am aware of is registering additional subdevices as the
  CCS driver does.

- Probably less relevant for a media summit, but we recently got a few
  series trying to reconcile handling of regulators, gpios and clocks
  on OF and ACPI platforms all of them doing the usual "similar but
  slightly different" thing:

  https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/20220425061022.1569480-1-paul.elder@ideasonboard.com/
  https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/20220329090133.338073-1-jacopo@jmondi.org/
  https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/20220509143226.531117-1-foss+kernel@0leil.net/
  https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=0c2c7a1e0d69221b9d489bfd8cf53262d6f82446

  ACPI and OF handles clocks slightly differently, and it is not clear
  to me if ACPI based platform need explicit handling of
  clocks/regulator or ACPI does "the right thing" by itself (I'm
  afraid the answer is actually "it depends"). I'm ACPI illiterate
  so I cannot propose anything meaningful but if anyone is interested
  in discussing this further this might be a good time to do so ?

Let me know if those points might be of any interest and I can try to
prepare something about them.

Thanks
   j

>
> Regards,
>
> 	Hans

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Kieran Bingham]

Hi Hans,

Quoting Hans Verkuil (2022-05-06 14:20:09)
> Hi all,
> 
> Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
> I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
> 
> See here for more details about the conference:
> 
> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
> 
> Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
> with any suggestions for topics!
> 
> Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
> If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
> 
> 
> I have two topics:
> 
> 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
>    for improvements?
> 
> 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
>    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
> 
> I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
> or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.

I would like to bring up the 'fault tolerance' topic again if I can. I
raised this in the past when we first started hitting the issue on
Renesas platforms with multiple cameras in a single media graph, but now
I think it's become more critical with desktop / laptop devices that are
hitting the issue (i.e. the IPU3).

Summary of issue:

 - Multiple cameras that can function independently successfully, are
   prevented from functioning or fully probing by V4L2 if one component
   of another camera fails to load or probe.
  
   If Camera A has a VCM, and Camera B does not, Camera B will not be
   available at all if Camera A's VCM is not fully probed, even though
   Camera B can be fully functional and complete.

   Even if Camera A does not have the VCM probed, it may still function
   successfully (with a fixed focal position) - but our current
   implementation will mean that it will not even be available to
   capture images.

We talked about this quite a long time ago, and I believe the general
consensus was that we can have events on the media graph. But
unfortunately at the time, there was no development scheduled on that,
and it wasn't something I was able to continue at the time.

I'd like to bring it up to refresh the topic, and see if we can make
some progress as it's now affecting more general devices.

--
Kieran



> 
> Regards,
> 
>         Hans

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Dave Stevenson]

Hi Hans and Jacopo

On Fri, 20 May 2022 at 09:22, Jacopo Mondi <jacopo@jmondi.org> wrote:
>
> Hello Hans,
>
> On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 03:20:09PM +0200, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
> > I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
> >
> > See here for more details about the conference:
> >
> > https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
> >
> > Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
> > with any suggestions for topics!
> >
> > Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
> > If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
> >
> >
> > I have two topics:
> >
> > 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
> >    for improvements?
> >
> > 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
> >    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
> >
> > I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
> > or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.
>
> There are a few topics around image sensor support, especially
> relevant for RAW sensor drivers
>
> - Recently Dave posted an question about how to represent additional
>   processing stages that happens on the sensor side, mostly
>   additional subsampling/cropping that happen between the analogue cropping
>   on the full pixel array and the final image sent on the wire.
>
>   https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/CAPY8ntA06L1Xsph79sv9t7MiDSNeSO2vADevuXZdXQdhWpSmow@mail.gmail.com/
>
>   Dave made a good introduction of the issue his email which got
>   largely unanswered.
>
>   The issue is particularly relevant for RAW sensors, where applying
>   subsampling has an impact on the sensor's sensitivity and requires
>   to adjust the gains and exposure accordingly.
>
>   The V4L2 selection API falls short on this and the only other
>   solution I am aware of is registering additional subdevices as the
>   CCS driver does.

If you want to throw in some more image sensor related issues, I can
think of a couple more areas that could do with some consensus on how
to implement:

On-sensor temperature reporting. Thread started by Benjamin at
https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/20220415111845.27130-3-benjamin.mugnier@foss.st.com/
, but no resolution over using hwmon API or V4L2 control. If hwmon
then we need Media Controller framework to tie the sensor and thermal
device together.
It's recently been queried for IMX477 with the Pi
(https://github.com/raspberrypi/libcamera/issues/19), but it will
apply to many sensors.

Synchronising sensors for stereoscopic operation (trying to avoid the
master / slave terminonlogy). How should that be configured? Allowing
configuration from userspace would allow sensors to be operated
independently which can be useful for test purposes, or should it be
enforced from DT / ACPI? Do we set a default configuration for each
sensor from DT/ACPI and then allow userspace to override should it
wish?

Controlling sensor GPIO outputs for things such as flash triggers,
vsync, frame start/end, exposure start/end, etc.
There is a huge range of features available so do we have any hope of
standardising some of it, or do we end up hiding these away in the
drivers with custom DT bindings to configure them? If we accept that
there will be variation, can we vaguely standardise what those
bindings look like? Or should these be V4L2 controls as things like
pulse widths may want to be adjusted by userspace?

Lens drivers. Each driver will have a "useful" range which is
effectively dictated by the overall module. Should that be defined via
DT as it is a feature of the platform, or leave the driver totally
generic and expect userspace to do something sensible?
In the case of simple systems without libcamera (this is Video 4 Linux
2, not Video 4 Libcamera 2), do we set default for
V4L2_CID_FOCUS_ABSOLUTE to a sensible hyperfocal distance, and can
that again be defined in DT as it is defining the hardware?

Thanks.
  Dave

> - Probably less relevant for a media summit, but we recently got a few
>   series trying to reconcile handling of regulators, gpios and clocks
>   on OF and ACPI platforms all of them doing the usual "similar but
>   slightly different" thing:
>
>   https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/20220425061022.1569480-1-paul.elder@ideasonboard.com/
>   https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/20220329090133.338073-1-jacopo@jmondi.org/
>   https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/20220509143226.531117-1-foss+kernel@0leil.net/
>   https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=0c2c7a1e0d69221b9d489bfd8cf53262d6f82446
>
>   ACPI and OF handles clocks slightly differently, and it is not clear
>   to me if ACPI based platform need explicit handling of
>   clocks/regulator or ACPI does "the right thing" by itself (I'm
>   afraid the answer is actually "it depends"). I'm ACPI illiterate
>   so I cannot propose anything meaningful but if anyone is interested
>   in discussing this further this might be a good time to do so ?
>
> Let me know if those points might be of any interest and I can try to
> prepare something about them.
>
> Thanks
>    j
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >       Hans

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Ricardo Ribalda Delgado]

Hi Hans

On Mon, May 9, 2022 at 8:46 AM Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
> I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
>
> See here for more details about the conference:
>
> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
>
> Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
> with any suggestions for topics!
>
> Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
> If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
>
>
> I have two topics:
>
> 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
>    for improvements?
>
> 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
>    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
>
> I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
> or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.
>
> Regards,
>
>         Hans


If all goes well, I will attend in person.

I would like to propose a topic as well if there is still space for it:

At ChromeOS we have been working on a new way to access cameras that
do not fit in the current V4L2/MC model.

We want to introduce the project, start a discussion in the media
community and think together about the approach and how it fits in our
current ecosystem.


Best regards!

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi Hans,

On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 03:20:09PM +0200, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
> I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
> 
> See here for more details about the conference:
> 
> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
> 
> Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
> with any suggestions for topics!
> 
> Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
> If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
> 
> 
> I have two topics:
> 
> 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
>    for improvements?
> 
> 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
>    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
> 
> I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
> or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.

I'd like to discuss the V4L2 streams series, in particular how to
upstream the parts that won't be upstream yet by mid-September.
Discussing the next steps would also be useful, as there's lots we could
build on top.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi Ricardo,

On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 12:29:32PM +0200, Ricardo Ribalda Delgado wrote:
> On Mon, May 9, 2022 at 8:46 AM Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
> > I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
> >
> > See here for more details about the conference:
> >
> > https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
> >
> > Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
> > with any suggestions for topics!
> >
> > Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
> > If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
> >
> >
> > I have two topics:
> >
> > 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
> >    for improvements?
> >
> > 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
> >    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
> >
> > I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
> > or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >         Hans
> 
> If all goes well, I will attend in person.
> 
> I would like to propose a topic as well if there is still space for it:
> 
> At ChromeOS we have been working on a new way to access cameras that
> do not fit in the current V4L2/MC model.
> 
> We want to introduce the project, start a discussion in the media
> community and think together about the approach and how it fits in our
> current ecosystem.

I hope there will be space to discuss this topic :-) Could you maybe
provide links to the talk you've given in Paris (video and slides) as
well as to the public git tree ? We'll have a big agenda for the
workshop, it will be important to focus on discussions and not
presentations, so we should all prepare by reading material in advance.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi Dave,

On Tue, May 24, 2022 at 11:51:04AM +0100, Dave Stevenson wrote:
> On Fri, 20 May 2022 at 09:22, Jacopo Mondi <jacopo@jmondi.org> wrote:
> > On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 03:20:09PM +0200, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
> > > I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
> > >
> > > See here for more details about the conference:
> > >
> > > https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
> > >
> > > Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
> > > with any suggestions for topics!
> > >
> > > Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
> > > If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have two topics:
> > >
> > > 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
> > >    for improvements?
> > >
> > > 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
> > >    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
> > >
> > > I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
> > > or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.
> >
> > There are a few topics around image sensor support, especially
> > relevant for RAW sensor drivers
> >
> > - Recently Dave posted an question about how to represent additional
> >   processing stages that happens on the sensor side, mostly
> >   additional subsampling/cropping that happen between the analogue cropping
> >   on the full pixel array and the final image sent on the wire.
> >
> >   https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/CAPY8ntA06L1Xsph79sv9t7MiDSNeSO2vADevuXZdXQdhWpSmow@mail.gmail.com/
> >
> >   Dave made a good introduction of the issue his email which got
> >   largely unanswered.
> >
> >   The issue is particularly relevant for RAW sensors, where applying
> >   subsampling has an impact on the sensor's sensitivity and requires
> >   to adjust the gains and exposure accordingly.
> >
> >   The V4L2 selection API falls short on this and the only other
> >   solution I am aware of is registering additional subdevices as the
> >   CCS driver does.
> 
> If you want to throw in some more image sensor related issues, I can
> think of a couple more areas that could do with some consensus on how
> to implement:
> 
> On-sensor temperature reporting. Thread started by Benjamin at
> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/20220415111845.27130-3-benjamin.mugnier@foss.st.com/
> , but no resolution over using hwmon API or V4L2 control. If hwmon
> then we need Media Controller framework to tie the sensor and thermal
> device together.
> It's recently been queried for IMX477 with the Pi
> (https://github.com/raspberrypi/libcamera/issues/19), but it will
> apply to many sensors.

I'd favour V4L2 for simplicity, but that's a pretty self-centric view as
I care about imaging sensor temperature for the purpose of tuning
imaging algorithms. If someone wants to use an imaging sensor as a
general-purpose temperature sensor (a pretty expensive one, but why
not...), then hwmon could be considered simpler.

> Synchronising sensors for stereoscopic operation (trying to avoid the
> master / slave terminonlogy). How should that be configured? Allowing
> configuration from userspace would allow sensors to be operated
> independently which can be useful for test purposes, or should it be
> enforced from DT / ACPI? Do we set a default configuration for each
> sensor from DT/ACPI and then allow userspace to override should it
> wish?

I think the firmware should describe the connections between the sensors
(or actually between the sensors and possibly the trigger source, as we
could have two sensors configured in external trigger mode), and
userspace should then be allowed to configure the operation mode within
the possibilities the hardware offers.

> Controlling sensor GPIO outputs for things such as flash triggers,
> vsync, frame start/end, exposure start/end, etc.
> There is a huge range of features available so do we have any hope of
> standardising some of it, or do we end up hiding these away in the
> drivers with custom DT bindings to configure them? If we accept that
> there will be variation, can we vaguely standardise what those
> bindings look like? Or should these be V4L2 controls as things like
> pulse widths may want to be adjusted by userspace?

Good question. I wonder if pinctrl could help there (for part of the
problem space), or if it would be too complex. A list of (real) sample
use cases could help the discussion.

> Lens drivers. Each driver will have a "useful" range which is

I'll start nitpicking here. I've seen the terms "lens driver", "VCM",
"lens", "VCM driver", "lens controller", ... all used interchangeably,
and that's a big source of confusion. I'd like to reserve the word
"driver" to refer to the kernel software driver, as opposed to the
hardware chip that drives the actuator, and "controller" to refer to the
chip. This would then become "lens controller driver" (one may argue
that the controller drives the actuator attached to the lens, but "lens
actuator controller driver" is getting quite long, and doesn't really
improve understanding in my opinion).

> effectively dictated by the overall module. Should that be defined via
> DT as it is a feature of the platform, or leave the driver totally
> generic and expect userspace to do something sensible?
> In the case of simple systems without libcamera (this is Video 4 Linux
> 2, not Video 4 Libcamera 2), do we set default for

We'd be back to V4L in that case, there's no "libcamera 2" ;-)

> V4L2_CID_FOCUS_ABSOLUTE to a sensible hyperfocal distance, and can
> that again be defined in DT as it is defining the hardware?

Before answering this question, we need to think about how to come up
with those three values (min, max and hyperfocal distance). They need to
be measured somehow, and if we don't consider that, we'll end up with
device trees that will encode incorrect values, and we'll be none the
wiser.

> > - Probably less relevant for a media summit, but we recently got a few
> >   series trying to reconcile handling of regulators, gpios and clocks
> >   on OF and ACPI platforms all of them doing the usual "similar but
> >   slightly different" thing:
> >
> >   https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/20220425061022.1569480-1-paul.elder@ideasonboard.com/
> >   https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/20220329090133.338073-1-jacopo@jmondi.org/
> >   https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/20220509143226.531117-1-foss+kernel@0leil.net/
> >   https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=0c2c7a1e0d69221b9d489bfd8cf53262d6f82446
> >
> >   ACPI and OF handles clocks slightly differently, and it is not clear
> >   to me if ACPI based platform need explicit handling of
> >   clocks/regulator or ACPI does "the right thing" by itself (I'm
> >   afraid the answer is actually "it depends"). I'm ACPI illiterate
> >   so I cannot propose anything meaningful but if anyone is interested
> >   in discussing this further this might be a good time to do so ?
> >
> > Let me know if those points might be of any interest and I can try to
> > prepare something about them.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Laurent Pinchart]

On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 03:20:09PM +0200, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
> I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
> 
> See here for more details about the conference:
> 
> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
> 
> Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
> with any suggestions for topics!
> 
> Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
> If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
> 
> 
> I have two topics:
> 
> 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
>    for improvements?
> 
> 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
>    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.

Another topic: how can we finalize conversion of v4l-utils to meson ?

> I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
> or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Ricardo Ribalda Delgado]

Hi Laurent

On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 2:28 PM Laurent Pinchart
<laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Ricardo,
>
> On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 12:29:32PM +0200, Ricardo Ribalda Delgado wrote:
> > On Mon, May 9, 2022 at 8:46 AM Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
> > > I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
> > >
> > > See here for more details about the conference:
> > >
> > > https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
> > >
> > > Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
> > > with any suggestions for topics!
> > >
> > > Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
> > > If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have two topics:
> > >
> > > 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
> > >    for improvements?
> > >
> > > 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
> > >    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
> > >
> > > I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
> > > or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >         Hans
> >
> > If all goes well, I will attend in person.
> >
> > I would like to propose a topic as well if there is still space for it:
> >
> > At ChromeOS we have been working on a new way to access cameras that
> > do not fit in the current V4L2/MC model.
> >
> > We want to introduce the project, start a discussion in the media
> > community and think together about the approach and how it fits in our
> > current ecosystem.
>
> I hope there will be space to discuss this topic :-) Could you maybe
> provide links to the talk you've given in Paris (video and slides) as
> well as to the public git tree ? We'll have a big agenda for the
> workshop, it will be important to focus on discussions and not
> presentations, so we should all prepare by reading material in advance.
>

The video of the presentation has not been produced yet. There is a
raw version with all the sessions of the day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v--rVT4RsCE&t=26706s Will share with
the list the video once it is has been edited

The slides are here:
https://kernel-recipes.org/en/2022/talks/rethinking-the-kernel-camera-framework/

and the source code here:
https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/third_party/kernel/+/refs/heads/kcam
 Although it is WIP at this moment.

If time allows I want to write a design doc before the workshop to
make the most of out it.

Regards!

> --
> Regards,
>
> Laurent Pinchart

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi Ricardo,

On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 08:45:22PM +0200, Ricardo Ribalda Delgado wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 2:28 PM Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 09, 2022 at 12:29:32PM +0200, Ricardo Ribalda Delgado wrote:
> > > On Mon, May 9, 2022 at 8:46 AM Hans Verkuil wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
> > > > I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
> > > >
> > > > See here for more details about the conference:
> > > >
> > > > https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
> > > >
> > > > Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
> > > > with any suggestions for topics!
> > > >
> > > > Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
> > > > If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have two topics:
> > > >
> > > > 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
> > > >    for improvements?
> > > >
> > > > 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
> > > >    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
> > > > or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > >         Hans
> > >
> > > If all goes well, I will attend in person.
> > >
> > > I would like to propose a topic as well if there is still space for it:
> > >
> > > At ChromeOS we have been working on a new way to access cameras that
> > > do not fit in the current V4L2/MC model.
> > >
> > > We want to introduce the project, start a discussion in the media
> > > community and think together about the approach and how it fits in our
> > > current ecosystem.
> >
> > I hope there will be space to discuss this topic :-) Could you maybe
> > provide links to the talk you've given in Paris (video and slides) as
> > well as to the public git tree ? We'll have a big agenda for the
> > workshop, it will be important to focus on discussions and not
> > presentations, so we should all prepare by reading material in advance.
> >
> 
> The video of the presentation has not been produced yet. There is a
> raw version with all the sessions of the day
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v--rVT4RsCE&t=26706s Will share with
> the list the video once it is has been edited
> 
> The slides are here:
> https://kernel-recipes.org/en/2022/talks/rethinking-the-kernel-camera-framework/
> 
> and the source code here:
> https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/third_party/kernel/+/refs/heads/kcam
>  Although it is WIP at this moment.
> 
> If time allows I want to write a design doc before the workshop to
> make the most of out it.

Thank you ! Much appreciated.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Hans Verkuil]

Hi all,

On 5/6/22 15:20, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
> I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
> 
> See here for more details about the conference:
> 
> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
> 
> Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
> with any suggestions for topics!
> 
> Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
> If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.

There are certainly enough topics and people for a media summit, so I am trying to
organize a room. Once I know more I will post an update.

Regards,

	Hans

> 
> 
> I have two topics:
> 
> 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
>    for improvements?
> 
> 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
>    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
> 
> I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
> or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Hans

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Hans Verkuil]

A quick status update: I'm still trying to get a room, either with the LPC organizers
or with the Linux Foundation. Unfortunately, I still have no confirmation from either
that they have a room for us. If I haven't heard anything by Monday I'll ping both.

Regards,

	Hans

On 6/17/22 08:41, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> On 5/6/22 15:20, Hans Verkuil wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
>> I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
>>
>> See here for more details about the conference:
>>
>> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
>>
>> Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
>> with any suggestions for topics!
>>
>> Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
>> If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
> 
> There are certainly enough topics and people for a media summit, so I am trying to
> organize a room. Once I know more I will post an update.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Hans
> 
>>
>>
>> I have two topics:
>>
>> 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
>>    for improvements?
>>
>> 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
>>    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
>>
>> I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
>> or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> 	Hans

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Hans Verkuil]

The LF got back to me: they are still shuffling groups around but they hope to be able to
give a confirmation by the end of next week. Fingers crossed.

Regards,

	Hans

On 7/8/22 13:39, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> A quick status update: I'm still trying to get a room, either with the LPC organizers
> or with the Linux Foundation. Unfortunately, I still have no confirmation from either
> that they have a room for us. If I haven't heard anything by Monday I'll ping both.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Hans
> 
> On 6/17/22 08:41, Hans Verkuil wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> On 5/6/22 15:20, Hans Verkuil wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
>>> I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
>>>
>>> See here for more details about the conference:
>>>
>>> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
>>>
>>> Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
>>> with any suggestions for topics!
>>>
>>> Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
>>> If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
>>
>> There are certainly enough topics and people for a media summit, so I am trying to
>> organize a room. Once I know more I will post an update.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> 	Hans
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have two topics:
>>>
>>> 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
>>>    for improvements?
>>>
>>> 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
>>>    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
>>>
>>> I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
>>> or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> 	Hans

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Hans Verkuil]

Hi Nicolas,

On 18/05/2022 20:01, Nicolas Dufresne wrote:
> Hi Hans,
> 
> Le vendredi 06 mai 2022 à 15:20 +0200, Hans Verkuil a écrit :
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
>> I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
>>
>> See here for more details about the conference:
>>
>> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
>>
>> Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
>> with any suggestions for topics!
>>
>> Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
>> If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
>>
>>
>> I have two topics:
>>
>> 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
>>    for improvements?
>>
>> 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
>>    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
>>
>> I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
>> or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.
> 
> Andrzej, Benjamin and I works on on stateless encoder, I'd be happy to introduce
> the real-life challenges and the share around the direction we have in mind. We
> want to collect various ideas and adjust our direction accordingly.

Can you give a quick update on the status of stateful/stateless AV1 support?

Regards,

	Hans

Re: [ANN] Media Summit at ELCE Dublin: Request for Topics

[Hans Verkuil]

On 08/09/2022 10:45, Hans Verkuil wrote:
> Hi Nicolas,
> 
> On 18/05/2022 20:01, Nicolas Dufresne wrote:
>> Hi Hans,
>>
>> Le vendredi 06 mai 2022 à 15:20 +0200, Hans Verkuil a écrit :
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Since countries are opening up again and travel is (at least for now!) a lot easier,
>>> I am considering a media summit during the ELCE in Dublin (Sep 13-16).
>>>
>>> See here for more details about the conference:
>>>
>>> https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
>>>
>>> Of course, this only makes sense if there is something to talk about. So please reply
>>> with any suggestions for topics!
>>>
>>> Also please let me know if you would expect to be at such a media summit in person.
>>> If only a few people would be there, then there isn't much point to this.
>>>
>>>
>>> I have two topics:
>>>
>>> 1) Discussion of the media subsystem development process: any bottlenecks, any ideas
>>>    for improvements?
>>>
>>> 2) I can give a presentation on the work I've done in the CTA-861 standard (used by
>>>    HDMI) and the edid-decode utility.
>>>
>>> I'd like to make a decision on whether or not it is worthwhile to do this in a week
>>> or two. If we wait too long it might be difficult to get a room for the summit.
>>
>> Andrzej, Benjamin and I works on on stateless encoder, I'd be happy to introduce
>> the real-life challenges and the share around the direction we have in mind. We
>> want to collect various ideas and adjust our direction accordingly.
> 
> Can you give a quick update on the status of stateful/stateless AV1 support?

That's AV1 decoder support, of course.

	Hans

> 
> Regards,
> 
> 	Hans