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([2001:b07:6468:f312:48f9:bea:a04c:3dfe]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id qb21sm1713152ejc.78.2021.12.10.07.13.55 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 10 Dec 2021 07:13:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <81f77751-5b01-697e-b9b6-d4583f929120@redhat.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 16:13:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.2.0 Subject: Re: Redesign of QEMU startup & initial configuration Content-Language: en-US To: =?UTF-8?Q?Daniel_P=2e_Berrang=c3=a9?= References: <87lf13cx3x.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> From: Paolo Bonzini In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::536 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::536; envelope-from=paolo.bonzini@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x536.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -9 X-Spam_score: -1.0 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.317, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Damien Hedde , Mark Burton , Markus Armbruster , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, Mirela Grujic , "Edgar E. Iglesias" , =?UTF-8?Q?Marc-Andr=c3=a9_Lureau?= Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" On 12/10/21 12:25, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote: >>> I can't disagree with this. If we carry on trying to evolve vl.c >>> incrementally we are doomed to be stuck with a horrible starstup >>> process for enternity (or at least as long as I'll still be >>> working as QEMU maintainer). >> ... and if you compare vl.c in 5.2 and now, and consider current vl.c to be >> horrible, my knowedge of English does not include an adjective to describe >> the 5.2 state. Some incremental work_is_ possible or even necessary, and >> has been done already. > Right, I'm not saying vl.c hasn't improved, but we're never going > to get out of the peculiar historical startup ordering rules we > have today by incremental fixes, without breaking people. Ok, so the confusion is between a horrible startup process and a horrible startup interface. The latter cannot be improved incrementally, the former can (to the point where adding a new non-horrible frontend is "trivial"). Thanks, Paolo