From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Anthony Liguori Subject: Re: updated: kvm networking todo wiki Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 08:47:58 -0500 Message-ID: <8738tctrox.fsf@codemonkey.ws> References: <20130523085034.GA16142@redhat.com> <519F35B7.6010408@redhat.com> <20130524113542.GA7046@redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: David Stevens , sri@linux.vnet.ibm.com, Rusty Russell , Krishna Kumar2 , Shirley Ma , "Xin\, Xiaohui" , jdike@linux.intel.com, herbert@gondor.hengli.com.au, lmr@redhat.com, akong@redhat.com, vyasevic@redhat.com, sriram.narasimhan@hp.com, kvm@vger.kernel.org, qemu-devel@nongnu.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Jason Wang Return-path: In-Reply-To: <20130524113542.GA7046@redhat.com> Sender: kvm-owner@vger.kernel.org List-Id: netdev.vger.kernel.org "Michael S. Tsirkin" writes: > On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 05:41:11PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote: >> On 05/23/2013 04:50 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: >> > Hey guys, >> > I've updated the kvm networking todo wiki with current projects. >> > Will try to keep it up to date more often. >> > Original announcement below. >> >> Thanks a lot. I've added the tasks I'm currently working on to the wiki. >> >> btw. I notice the virtio-net data plane were missed in the wiki. Is the >> project still being considered? > > It might have been interesting several years ago, but now that linux has > vhost-net in kernel, the only point seems to be to > speed up networking on non-linux hosts. Data plane just means having a dedicated thread for virtqueue processing that doesn't hold qemu_mutex. Of course we're going to do this in QEMU. It's a no brainer. But not as a separate device, just as an improvement to the existing userspace virtio-net. > Since non-linux does not have kvm, I doubt virtio is a bottleneck. FWIW, I think what's more interesting is using vhost-net as a networking backend with virtio-net in QEMU being what's guest facing. In theory, this gives you the best of both worlds: QEMU acts as a first line of defense against a malicious guest while still getting the performance advantages of vhost-net (zero-copy). > IMO yet another networking backend is a distraction, > and confusing to users. > In any case, I'd like to see virtio-blk dataplane replace > non dataplane first. We don't want two copies of > virtio-net in qemu. 100% agreed. Regards, Anthony Liguori > >> > ---- >> > >> > I've put up a wiki page with a kvm networking todo list, >> > mainly to avoid effort duplication, but also in the hope >> > to draw attention to what I think we should try addressing >> > in KVM: >> > >> > http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/NetworkingTodo >> > >> > This page could cover all networking related activity in KVM, >> > currently most info is related to virtio-net. >> > >> > Note: if there's no developer listed for an item, >> > this just means I don't know of anyone actively working >> > on an issue at the moment, not that no one intends to. >> > >> > I would appreciate it if others working on one of the items on this list >> > would add their names so we can communicate better. If others like this >> > wiki page, please go ahead and add stuff you are working on if any. >> > >> > It would be especially nice to add autotest projects: >> > there is just a short test matrix and a catch-all >> > 'Cover test matrix with autotest', currently. >> > >> > Currently there are some links to Red Hat bugzilla entries, >> > feel free to add links to other bugzillas. >> > >> > Thanks! >> > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37870) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UfsLn-0001cC-3x for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Fri, 24 May 2013 09:48:08 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UfsLi-0005Ph-Bd for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Fri, 24 May 2013 09:48:07 -0400 Received: from mail-oa0-f51.google.com ([209.85.219.51]:51459) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UfsLi-0005Ob-5l for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Fri, 24 May 2013 09:48:02 -0400 Received: by mail-oa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id f4so6128374oah.38 for ; Fri, 24 May 2013 06:48:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Anthony Liguori In-Reply-To: <20130524113542.GA7046@redhat.com> References: <20130523085034.GA16142@redhat.com> <519F35B7.6010408@redhat.com> <20130524113542.GA7046@redhat.com> Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 08:47:58 -0500 Message-ID: <8738tctrox.fsf@codemonkey.ws> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] updated: kvm networking todo wiki List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Jason Wang Cc: Krishna Kumar2 , lmr@redhat.com, "Xin, Xiaohui" , Rusty Russell , akong@redhat.com, kvm@vger.kernel.org, sriram.narasimhan@hp.com, netdev@vger.kernel.org, Shirley Ma , virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, David Stevens , qemu-devel@nongnu.org, vyasevic@redhat.com, herbert@gondor.hengli.com.au, jdike@linux.intel.com, sri@linux.vnet.ibm.com "Michael S. Tsirkin" writes: > On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 05:41:11PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote: >> On 05/23/2013 04:50 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: >> > Hey guys, >> > I've updated the kvm networking todo wiki with current projects. >> > Will try to keep it up to date more often. >> > Original announcement below. >> >> Thanks a lot. I've added the tasks I'm currently working on to the wiki. >> >> btw. I notice the virtio-net data plane were missed in the wiki. Is the >> project still being considered? > > It might have been interesting several years ago, but now that linux has > vhost-net in kernel, the only point seems to be to > speed up networking on non-linux hosts. Data plane just means having a dedicated thread for virtqueue processing that doesn't hold qemu_mutex. Of course we're going to do this in QEMU. It's a no brainer. But not as a separate device, just as an improvement to the existing userspace virtio-net. > Since non-linux does not have kvm, I doubt virtio is a bottleneck. FWIW, I think what's more interesting is using vhost-net as a networking backend with virtio-net in QEMU being what's guest facing. In theory, this gives you the best of both worlds: QEMU acts as a first line of defense against a malicious guest while still getting the performance advantages of vhost-net (zero-copy). > IMO yet another networking backend is a distraction, > and confusing to users. > In any case, I'd like to see virtio-blk dataplane replace > non dataplane first. We don't want two copies of > virtio-net in qemu. 100% agreed. Regards, Anthony Liguori > >> > ---- >> > >> > I've put up a wiki page with a kvm networking todo list, >> > mainly to avoid effort duplication, but also in the hope >> > to draw attention to what I think we should try addressing >> > in KVM: >> > >> > http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/NetworkingTodo >> > >> > This page could cover all networking related activity in KVM, >> > currently most info is related to virtio-net. >> > >> > Note: if there's no developer listed for an item, >> > this just means I don't know of anyone actively working >> > on an issue at the moment, not that no one intends to. >> > >> > I would appreciate it if others working on one of the items on this list >> > would add their names so we can communicate better. If others like this >> > wiki page, please go ahead and add stuff you are working on if any. >> > >> > It would be especially nice to add autotest projects: >> > there is just a short test matrix and a catch-all >> > 'Cover test matrix with autotest', currently. >> > >> > Currently there are some links to Red Hat bugzilla entries, >> > feel free to add links to other bugzillas. >> > >> > Thanks! >> >