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Miller" , Jesse Brandeburg , Michal Swiatkowski , Maciej Fijalkowski , Jonathan Corbet , Shay Agroskin , Arthur Kiyanovski , David Arinzon , Noam Dagan , Saeed Bishara , Ioana Ciornei , Claudiu Manoil , Tony Nguyen , Thomas Petazzoni , Marcin Wojtas , Russell King , Saeed Mahameed , Leon Romanovsky , Alexei Starovoitov , Jesper Dangaard Brouer , John Fastabend , Edward Cree , Martin Habets , "Michael S. Tsirkin" , Jason Wang , Andrii Nakryiko , Martin KaFai Lau , Song Liu , Yonghong Song , KP Singh , Lorenzo Bianconi , Yajun Deng , Sergey Ryazanov , David Ahern , Andrei Vagin , Johannes Berg , Vladimir Oltean , Cong Wang , netdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-doc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, bpf@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 net-next 21/26] ice: add XDP and XSK generic per-channel statistics In-Reply-To: <871ae82a-3d5b-2693-2f77-7c86d725a056@iogearbox.net> References: <20211123163955.154512-1-alexandr.lobakin@intel.com> <20211123163955.154512-22-alexandr.lobakin@intel.com> <77407c26-4e32-232c-58e0-2d601d781f84@iogearbox.net> <87bl28bga6.fsf@toke.dk> <20211125170708.127323-1-alexandr.lobakin@intel.com> <20211125094440.6c402d63@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <20211125204007.133064-1-alexandr.lobakin@intel.com> <87sfvj9k13.fsf@toke.dk> <20211126100611.514df099@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <871ae82a-3d5b-2693-2f77-7c86d725a056@iogearbox.net> X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2021 12:51:26 +0100 Message-ID: <878rx79o3l.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org Daniel Borkmann writes: > On 11/26/21 7:06 PM, Jakub Kicinski wrote: >> On Fri, 26 Nov 2021 13:30:16 +0100 Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen wrot= e: >>>>> TBH I wasn't following this thread too closely since I saw Daniel >>>>> nacked it already. I do prefer rtnl xstats, I'd just report them >>>>> in -s if they are non-zero. But doesn't sound like we have an agreeme= nt >>>>> whether they should exist or not. >>>> >>>> Right, just -s is fine, if we drop the per-channel approach. >>> >>> I agree that adding them to -s is fine (and that resolves my "no one >>> will find them" complain as well). If it crowds the output we could also >>> default to only output'ing a subset, and have the more detailed >>> statistics hidden behind a verbose switch (or even just in the JSON >>> output)? >>> >>>>> Can we think of an approach which would make cloudflare and cilium >>>>> happy? Feels like we're trying to make the slightly hypothetical >>>>> admin happy while ignoring objections of very real users. >>>> >>>> The initial idea was to only uniform the drivers. But in general >>>> you are right, 10 drivers having something doesn't mean it's >>>> something good. >>> >>> I don't think it's accurate to call the admin use case "hypothetical". >>> We're expending a significant effort explaining to people that XDP can >>> "eat" your packets, and not having any standard statistics makes this >>> way harder. We should absolutely cater to our "early adopters", but if >>> we want XDP to see wider adoption, making it "less weird" is critical! >>=20 >> Fair. In all honesty I said that hoping to push for a more flexible >> approach hidden entirely in BPF, and not involving driver changes. >> Assuming the XDP program has more fine grained stats we should be able >> to extract those instead of double-counting. Hence my vague "let's work >> with apps" comment. >>=20 >> For example to a person familiar with the workload it'd be useful to >> know if program returned XDP_DROP because of configured policy or >> failure to parse a packet. I don't think that sort distinction is >> achievable at the level of standard stats. > > Agree on the additional context. How often have you looked at tc clsact > /dropped/ stats specifically when you debug a more complex BPF program > there? > > # tc -s qdisc show clsact dev foo > qdisc clsact ffff: parent ffff:fff1 > Sent 6800 bytes 120 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0) > backlog 0b 0p requeues 0 > > Similarly, XDP_PASS counters may be of limited use as well for same reason > (and I think we might not even have a tc counter equivalent for it). > >> The information required by the admin is higher level. As you say the >> primary concern there is "how many packets did XDP eat". > > Agree. Above said, for XDP_DROP I would see one use case where you compare > different drivers or bond vs no bond as we did in the past in [0] when > testing against a packet generator (although I don't see bond driver cove= red > in this series here yet where it aggregates the XDP stats from all bond s= lave > devs). > > On a higher-level wrt "how many packets did XDP eat", it would make sense > to have the stats for successful XDP_{TX,REDIRECT} given these are out > of reach from a BPF prog PoV - we can only count there how many times we > returned with XDP_TX but not whether the pkt /successfully made it/. > > In terms of error cases, could we just standardize all drivers on the beh= avior > of e.g. mlx5e_xdp_handle(), meaning, a failure from XDP_{TX,REDIRECT} will > hit the trace_xdp_exception() and then fallthrough to bump a drop counter > (same as we bump in XDP_DROP then). So the drop counter will account for > program drops but also driver-related drops. > > At some later point the trace_xdp_exception() could be extended with an e= rror > code that the driver would propagate (given some of them look quite simil= ar > across drivers, fwiw), and then whoever wants to do further processing wi= th > them can do so via bpftrace or other tooling. > > So overall wrt this series: from the lrstats we'd be /dropping/ the pass, > tx_errors, redirect_errors, invalid, aborted counters. And we'd be /keepi= ng/ > bytes & packets counters that XDP sees, (driver-)successful tx & redirect > counters as well as drop counter. Also, XDP bytes & packets counters shou= ld > not be counted twice wrt ethtool stats. This sounds reasonable to me, and I also like the error code to tracepoint idea :) -Toke