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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: amd.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BL1PR12MB5269.namprd12.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ac3e9d9a-360f-4434-b6cb-08d97100b67e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Sep 2021 06:36:52.2733 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 3dd8961f-e488-4e60-8e11-a82d994e183d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: F/zyOsJlizoEBONyCsvP4Z9JgXfgbkJG6yGmGvdTvkKhxzaCRPEGnAGyfzq23U0L X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL1PR12MB5032 X-BeenThere: dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Direct Rendering Infrastructure - Development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "dri-devel" [AMD Official Use Only] > I'm fearing that just repeating what Alex said, but to make it clear=20 > once more: That is *not* necessary! > > The shared repository is owned by upstream maintainers and they are=20 > usually free to do restructuring work without getting acknowledge from=20 > every single driver maintainer. Hi Daniel Anyway thanks for officially confirm to me of working model & policy in com= munity, I don't want to put my opinion here due to that's not my call to ch= ange no matter how. I only want to let this diagnostic TDR scheme going to a good end for AMD o= r even for all DRM vendor. How about this way, we still have a final patch not landed in DRM scheduler= and I would like jingwen to present it to you and AlexD/Christian/Andrey, = I believe you will have concerns or objections regarding this patch, but t= hat's fine, let us figure it out together, how to make it acceptable by you= and other vendors that working with DRM scheduler. P.S.: I had to repeat myself again, we are not popping up new idea suddenl= y, it is disconnection issue, we didn't have changes (or plan to have chang= es) in DRM scheduler before, but eventually we found we must make job_timeo= ut and sched_main to work in a serialized otherwise it won't work based on = current scheduler's code structure. Thanks=20 ------------------------------------------ Monk Liu | Cloud-GPU Core team ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Vetter =20 Sent: Friday, September 3, 2021 12:11 AM To: Koenig, Christian Cc: Liu, Monk ; Dave Airlie ; Alex Deu= cher ; Grodzovsky, Andrey ; Chen, JingWen ; DRI Development ; amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org Subject: Re: [diagnostic TDR mode patches] unify our solution opinions/sugg= estions in one thread On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 1:00 PM Christian K=F6nig = wrote: > > Hi Monk, > > Am 02.09.21 um 07:52 schrieb Liu, Monk: > > [AMD Official Use Only] > > > > I'm not sure I can add much to help this along, I'm sure Alex has=20 > > some internal training, Once your driver is upstream, it belongs to ups= tream, you can maintain it, but you no longer control it 100%, it's a trade= off, it's not one companies always understand. > > Usually people are fine developing away internally, but once interactio= n with other parts of the kernel/subsystem is required they have the realis= ation that they needed to work upstream 6 months earlier. > > The best time to interact with upstream was 6 months ago, the second be= st time is now. > > <<< > > > > Daniel/AlexD > > > > I didn't mean your changes on AMD driver need my personal approval=20 > > or review ... and I'm totally already get used that our driver is not = 100% under control by AMDers, but supposedly any one from community (includ= ing you) who tend to change AMD's driver need at least to get approvement f= rom someone in AMD, e.g.: AlexD or Christian, doesn't that reasonable? > > I'm fearing that just repeating what Alex said, but to make it clear=20 > once more: That is *not* necessary! > > The shared repository is owned by upstream maintainers and they are=20 > usually free to do restructuring work without getting acknowledge from=20 > every single driver maintainer. > > Anybody can of course technically object to upstream design decisions,=20 > but that means that you need to pay attention to the mailing lists in=20 > the first place. > > > just like we need your approve if we try to modify DRM-sched, or need p= anfrost's approval if we need to change panfrost code ... > > > > by only CC AMD's engineers looks not quite properly, how do you know if= your changes (on AMD code part) are conflicting with AMD's on-going intern= al features/refactoring or not ? > > Well because AMD is supposed to work in public as much as possible and=20 > ask upstream before doing changes to the code base. > > Additional to that design decisions are supposed to be discussed on=20 > the mailing list and *not* internally. Yeah I'm honestly really surprised about the course of this discussion here= . With Alex, Christian and others amd has a lot of folks with years/decades= of experience in how to collaborate in upstream, when to pull in others pr= oactively and when that's not needed, and in general how to plan upstream w= ork with the lest amount of risk and surprises. I think step zero here needs to be some training at amd and then re-plannin= g this effort, before we get back to technical stuff. Otherwise we'll just get bogged down in pain because expectations about the= process don't pan out. -Daniel > > Regards, > Christian. > > > > > Thanks > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > Monk Liu | Cloud-GPU Core team > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dave Airlie > > Sent: Thursday, September 2, 2021 2:51 AM > > To: Alex Deucher > > Cc: Liu, Monk ; Daniel Vetter ;=20 > > Koenig, Christian ; Grodzovsky, Andrey=20 > > ; Chen, JingWen ;=20 > > DRI Development ;=20 > > amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org > > Subject: Re: [diagnostic TDR mode patches] unify our solution=20 > > opinions/suggestions in one thread > > > > On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 01:20, Alex Deucher wrot= e: > >> On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 6:19 AM Liu, Monk wrote: > >>> [AMD Official Use Only] > >>> > >>> Daniel > >>> > >>> From the link you share it looks you(or someone else) have quite a b= unch patches that changes DRM_SCHED or even amdgpu, by that case before the= y are merged to kernel tree I'm wondering if any AMD develop reviewed them = ? > >>> > >>> They looks to me somehow conflicting with what we changed in our repo= .... > >>> > >>> It is really a chaos for AMDer if someone else out side of AMD change= s our kernel driver (or/and scheduler) without reviewed by AMDer, just like= we are requiring your review if we tend to change scheduler's logic here .= ... > >>> > >>> This one changes AMD's code: > >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2F > >>> lo=20 > >>> re.kernel.org%2Fdri-devel%2F20210625133327.2598825-2-boris.brezill > >>> on > >>> %40collabora.com%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7CMonk.Liu%40amd.com%7C6c507d > >>> 18=20 > >>> d65341ef53bb08d96d7976e6%7C3dd8961fe4884e608e11a82d994e183d%7C0%7C > >>> 0%=20 > >>> 7C637661190727875969%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiL > >>> CJ=20 > >>> QIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DBWJSk > >>> KN > >>> y2%2BwjxbQrfxGPzuJ5PBpBwB4aV0ZH6QoJGEg%3D&reserved=3D0 > >>> And I didn't see any reviewed-by from AMDers ... > >>> > >>> This one also touches AMD's code: > >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2F > >>> lo > >>> re.kernel.org%2Fdri-devel%2F20200604081224.863494-12-daniel.vetter > >>> %4=20 > >>> 0ffwll.ch%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7CMonk.Liu%40amd.com%7C6c507d18d6534 > >>> 1e > >>> f53bb08d96d7976e6%7C3dd8961fe4884e608e11a82d994e183d%7C0%7C0%7C637 > >>> 66 > >>> 1190727885929%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoi > >>> V2=20 > >>> luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3D%2F8vIVXCWjH > >>> kM > >>> 56pcYI9EvuzhbsZhV9WczkKaBJE67KQ%3D&reserved=3D0 > >>> Which is conflicting with one patch we submitted (in our repo=20 > >>> rightnow), and neither see AMDder gave a review-by on this one=20 > >>> (let me know if I missed it) > >>> > >> Monk, this is not how upstream works. You need to participate. > >> That's how communities work. There's a reason all these=20 > >> discussions happen on public mailing lists. The patch author can't=20 > >> be expected to know every person on every vendor team to CC with a=20 > >> patch. If you have concerns, you need to raise them when the=20 > >> patches are being discussed. > >> > > I'm not sure I can add much to help this along, I'm sure Alex has=20 > > some internal training, > > > > Once your driver is upstream, it belongs to upstream, you can maintain = it, but you no longer control it 100%, it's a tradeoff, it's not one compan= ies always understand. > > > > Usually people are fine developing away internally, but once interactio= n with other parts of the kernel/subsystem is required they have the realis= ation that they needed to work upstream 6 months earlier. > > > > The best time to interact with upstream was 6 months ago, the second be= st time is now. > > > > Dave. > -- Daniel Vetter Software Engineer, Intel Corporation https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fblog.ffw= ll.ch%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7CMonk.Liu%40amd.com%7C1de8110d43194346d9b908d9= 6e2c5459%7C3dd8961fe4884e608e11a82d994e183d%7C0%7C0%7C637661958966011423%7C= Unknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL= CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3D%2BvtBN1lBJnUoeSyj6aXTDRNHVQDQP8kPRdSUrhR1= MVk%3D&reserved=3D0