From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: by yocto-www.yoctoproject.org (Postfix, from userid 118) id 7423BE00CB0; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:33:13 -0800 (PST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on yocto-www.yoctoproject.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-HAM-Report: * -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% * [score: 0.0000] * 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message * -2.3 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, * medium trust * [134.134.136.100 listed in list.dnswl.org] Received: from mga07.intel.com (mga07.intel.com [134.134.136.100]) by yocto-www.yoctoproject.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C240E00C7D for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:32:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from fmsmga006.fm.intel.com ([10.253.24.20]) by orsmga105.jf.intel.com with ESMTP; 12 Jan 2017 14:32:58 -0800 X-ExtLoop1: 1 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,220,1477983600"; d="scan'208,217";a="53228156" Received: from ttorling-mac01.jf.intel.com ([10.24.10.84]) by fmsmga006.fm.intel.com with ESMTP; 12 Jan 2017 14:32:58 -0800 From: Tim Orling Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:32:57 -0800 In-Reply-To: To: Andrea Galbusera References: <990F24BD-1C6F-4985-8E33-0C8E5B59E84A@linux.intel.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) Cc: "yocto@yoctoproject.org" Subject: Re: Building on MacOS X X-BeenThere: yocto@yoctoproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of all things Yocto Project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 22:33:13 -0000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_04A610AE-336C-45CF-9477-60C61275153A" --Apple-Mail=_04A610AE-336C-45CF-9477-60C61275153A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 12, 2017, at 8:50 AM, Andrea Galbusera = wrote: >=20 > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 5:21 PM, Belisko Marek = > wrote: > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Tim Orling > > wrote: > > You can also build using Docker containers: > > https://github.com/crops/docker-win-mac-docs/wiki = > Well the re is other limitation about slow filesystem access from > docker on osx. There is workaround to use nfs but it's not possible to > use nfs for building yocto - so it's kind of chicken-egg problem ;) >=20 > I shortly tested the CROPS docker-based setup after watching some = presentation at ELCE 2016 in Berlin. It basically worked but I = experienced the filesystem slowness your are talking about. I ended up = waiting hours to see a simple core-image-minimal build complete (even = after giving more cores to docker). One more point is that slightly more = complex build scenarios, i.e. building resin.os, also required tweaking = docker run parameters for the build container in order to give bitbake = access to features like loop devices it needed (not always easily = debuggable issues indeed). Turned out I decided to stick with more = canonical linux based environments for the moment. >=20 Depending on your hardware, it will take hours to build a simple image = for the first time. This is no different on native Linux, if the = hardware is only 1-4 cores, 4-8 GB RAM and especially if you are using a = spinning harddrive. Server class systems with 72+ cores and 128+ GB of = RAM will have a significantly faster build time. Almost all my YP/OE = builds are now run in containers. We will run some tests and get back to you about the real speed = differences. Assuming you are running on the same hardware, we have seen = builds on Windows be slightly *faster* than on native Linux. We need to = collect data for our latest Mac OS X builds to address your concern. > Anyway, the technology behind CROPS is *very* interesting to me, and = I'd like to hear from people closely involved (Tim?) what the state of = the art is and what we can expect to see in the near future. IIRC, the = roadmap for Yocto 2.3 release was supposed to resurrect the Eclipse = plugin and adopt CROPS as an alternative for running eSDK in a seamless = way on different development host OSs. Beside from the images on docker = hub and the github projects that didn't have high activity in the latest = months, I hardly find discussions and documentation on the whole = approach. Isn't this hot enough anymore or are there big issues that = will prevent this technology from taking off. I often manage SDKs for = Windows-minded developers and I strongly yearn to find a better approach = to help them feel at home while building stuff for OE/Yocto based = systems...=20 >=20 This work is being done by a very small team. It is no less hot than = since it was first announced. However, the state of the Eclipse plugin = at the initial announcement was experimental and the perception was that = it was production ready. That is a risk of developing a project in the = open. Both the Docker technology and the Eclipse technologies that we = are using are rapidly changing. Our current work is hosted on GitHub = (https://github.com/crops/eclipse-crops = ). We had to rethink some of the = approach that we demoed at ELC San Diego. We are still targeting 2.3 for = the =E2=80=9Cstandard SDK=E2=80=9D approach (e.g. no =E2=80=9Cdevtool=E2=80= =9D integration). > =20 > > > > On Jan 12, 2017, at 7:34 AM, Burton, Ross > wrote: > > > > > > On 12 January 2017 at 15:14, Roger Smith > wrote: > >> > >> Is there any documentation for running the Yocto build system on = Mac OS X > >> or macOS as Apple now calls it? I am working with the Intel Aero = board. > >> Before I go down the rabbit hole of fixing issues like this one = (and I am > >> using the bash shell), I=E2=80=99d like to know if anyone has build = it on os x > >> before. > > > > > > If you install all of the GNU tools using brew or similar and put = them first > > on $PATH then you can get bitbake started. Then you need to stub = out the > > linux-specific bits in bitbake. I've previously started on this = work > > already > > = (http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/poky-contrib/log/?h=3Dross/darw= in = ). > > The next step is figuring out how to configure OE to build and link = natively > > on OSX using LLVM instead of GCC. > > > > However all of this is mostly academic because in Sierra (iirc) = onwards > > there is tighter security on processes, which means that pseudo = won't work > > even if you port it to macOS. > > > > So unless you fancy some non-trivial engineering the short version = is just > > use something like Docker to run a Linux system on your Mac. > > > > Ross > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > yocto mailing list > > yocto@yoctoproject.org > > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto = > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > yocto mailing list > > yocto@yoctoproject.org > > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto = > > >=20 > marek >=20 > -- > as simple and primitive as possible > ------------------------------------------------- > Marek Belisko - OPEN-NANDRA > Freelance Developer >=20 > Ruska Nova Ves 219 | Presov, 08005 Slovak Republic > Tel: +421 915 052 184 > skype: marekwhite > twitter: #opennandra > web: http://open-nandra.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > yocto mailing list > yocto@yoctoproject.org > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto = --Apple-Mail=_04A610AE-336C-45CF-9477-60C61275153A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On Jan 12, 2017, at 8:50 AM, Andrea Galbusera <gizero@gmail.com> = wrote:

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at = 5:21 PM, Belisko Marek <marek.belisko@gmail.com> wrote:
On = Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Tim Orling
<timothy.t.orling@linux.intel.com> = wrote:
> You can also build using Docker containers:
> https://github.com/crops/docker-win-mac-docs/wiki
Well the re = is other limitation about slow filesystem access from
docker= on osx. There is workaround to use nfs but it's not possible to
use nfs for building yocto - so it's kind of chicken-egg = problem ;)

I shortly tested the CROPS docker-based = setup after watching some presentation at ELCE 2016 in Berlin. It = basically worked but I experienced the filesystem slowness your are = talking about. I ended up waiting hours to see a simple = core-image-minimal build complete (even after giving more cores to = docker). One more point is that slightly more complex build scenarios, = i.e. building resin.os, also required tweaking docker run parameters for = the build container in order to give bitbake access to features like = loop devices it needed (not always easily debuggable issues indeed). = Turned out I decided to stick with more canonical linux based = environments for the moment.


Depending on your hardware, it will take hours to = build a simple image for the first time. This is no different on native = Linux, if the hardware is only 1-4 cores, 4-8 GB RAM and especially if = you are using a spinning harddrive. Server class systems with 72+ cores = and 128+ GB of RAM will have a significantly faster build time. Almost = all my YP/OE builds are now run in containers.

We will run some tests and get back to you about the = real speed differences. Assuming you are running on the same hardware, = we have seen builds on Windows be slightly *faster* than on native = Linux. We need to collect data for our latest Mac OS X builds to address = your concern.

Anyway, the technology behind = CROPS is *very* interesting to me, and I'd like to hear from people = closely involved (Tim?) what the state of the art is and what we can = expect to see in the near future. IIRC, the roadmap for Yocto 2.3 = release was supposed to resurrect the Eclipse plugin and adopt CROPS as = an alternative for running eSDK in a seamless way on different = development host OSs. Beside from the images on docker hub and the = github projects that didn't have high activity in the latest months, I = hardly find discussions and documentation on the whole approach. Isn't = this hot enough anymore or are there big issues that will prevent this = technology from taking off. I often manage SDKs for Windows-minded = developers and I strongly yearn to find a better approach to help them = feel at home while building stuff for OE/Yocto based = systems... 


This work is being done by a very small team. It = is no less hot than since it was first announced. However, the state of = the Eclipse plugin at the initial announcement was experimental and the = perception was that it was production ready. That is a risk of = developing a project in the open. Both the Docker technology and the = Eclipse technologies that we are using are rapidly = changing.

Our current work is hosted on = GitHub (https://github.com/crops/eclipse-crops). We had to = rethink some of the approach that we demoed at ELC San Diego. We are = still targeting 2.3 for the =E2=80=9Cstandard SDK=E2=80=9D approach = (e.g. no =E2=80=9Cdevtool=E2=80=9D integration).

 
>
> On Jan 12, = 2017, at 7:34 AM, Burton, Ross <ross.burton@intel.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 12 January 2017 at 15:14, Roger = Smith <roger@sentientblue.com> wrote:
>>>> Is there any documentation for running the Yocto = build system on Mac OS X
>> or macOS as Apple now = calls it? I am working with the Intel Aero board.
>> = Before I go down the rabbit hole of fixing issues like this one (and I = am
>> using the bash shell), I=E2=80=99d like to = know if anyone has build it on os x
>> before.
>
>
> If you install all = of the GNU tools using brew or similar and put them first
> on $PATH then you can get bitbake started.  Then = you need to stub out the
> linux-specific bits in = bitbake.  I've previously started on this work
> = already
> (http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/poky-contrib/log/?h=3Dross/darwin).
> The next step = is figuring out how to configure OE to build and link natively
> on OSX using LLVM instead of GCC.
>
> However all of this is mostly academic because in Sierra = (iirc) onwards
> there is tighter security on = processes, which means that pseudo won't work
> even if = you port it to macOS.
>
> So unless = you fancy some non-trivial engineering the short version is just
> use something like Docker to run a Linux system on your = Mac.
>
> Ross
> --
> _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> yocto@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>
>>
> --
> = _______________________________________________
> yocto mailing list
> yocto@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto
>

marek

--
as simple = and primitive as possible
-------------------------------------------------
Marek Belisko - = OPEN-NANDRA
Freelance Developer

Ruska Nova Ves 219 | Presov, 08005 Slovak Republic
Tel: +421 915 052 184
skype: marekwhite
twitter: #opennandra
web: http://open-nandra.com
--
_______________________________________________
yocto mailing list
yocto@yoctoproject.org
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

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