From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 769E625A for ; Sat, 27 Aug 2016 22:50:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oi0-f46.google.com (mail-oi0-f46.google.com [209.85.218.46]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0D7A11D for ; Sat, 27 Aug 2016 22:50:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oi0-f46.google.com with SMTP id j203so8101814oih.2 for ; Sat, 27 Aug 2016 15:50:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: linus971@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20160827183550.GB1601@katana> References: <20160827183550.GB1601@katana> From: Linus Torvalds Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2016 15:50:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: Wolfram Sang Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: "Bradley M. Kuhn" , ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] [CORE TOPIC] GPL defense issues List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Wolfram Sang wrote: > Greg, Linus, > > Putting all the enforcement issues aside, there is one sentence that > struck me: > >> > And corporations are a _huge_ part of our community, and frankly, >> > the only reason we are where we are today. > > I don't question the first part of the sentence, but I disagree to > 'the only reason' in the second part. So I think Greg may have phrased it badly. Yes, the "only reason" part is clearly not the case, but it could definitely be rephrased slightly differently: "only because we have actively embraced companies being involved are we where we are today". It's not that "only companies" have made Linux be what it is today - you are obviously very much right in pointing out that there's been a lot (and still is!) individual contributors. But it absolutely is the case that _only_ by working with companies have we been able to succeed like we have been. I just spent some time watching some of Bradley's youtube videos just to compare his public stance with what is then claimed in this thread (and private emails), and quite frankly, a lot of it was populist "corporations are evil" stuff. It's a very popular sentiment in some corners, but it's clearly bullshit. Corporations tend to be largely selfish, yes, but so are individuals. And the thing is - a community of enlightened self-interest where people and corporations work together because they all feel that it's good for themselves ("selfish" behavior) is absolutely what we want and need (and I'd argue have). The reason open source works is exactly *because* the process works with people who have their own interests at heart. Yes, lots of people have other reasons for embracing open source too, but without the basic self-interest angle you simply cannot get to the point where you have a positive reinforcement cycle of people *and* companies being involved. So demonizing companies because they are "selfish" is just plain stupid. Yet people do it. What we need to do - and what we largely *have* been doing in the Linux community - is to emphasize exactly the fact that open source is a way to be selfish and get great results. Because that's the real power of cooperation. The whole "proprietary software is evil" mantra and the "corporations are inherently bad" stuff is just crazy talk. It's insane, it's stupid, and it's self-limiting. Dismissing that kind of crazy talk is definitely a big reason for why Linux is where it is today. It's why Linux has never had anything to do with the FSF. People call me many things, but very few people call me stupid. Linus