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From: Brian Norris <briannorris@chromium.org>
To: Kalle Valo <kvalo@codeaurora.org>
Cc: Ping-Ke Shih <pkshih@realtek.com>,
	linux-wireless <linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Small driver submissions and long feedback cycles
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 10:40:39 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CA+ASDXMX2Kw9JLBtzAvEJr=qFD9rq4L6+zFeHeYCPUeOc=u7pw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87sfxkix5e.fsf@codeaurora.org>

[[ changing subject, as this is less about rtw89; it used to be:
  Re: [PATCH v6 02/24] rtw89: add BT coexistence files ]]

On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 8:26 AM Kalle Valo <kvalo@codeaurora.org> wrote:
> A small tip for future drivers, try to remove all the optional features
> from the driver as much possible and keep only the absolutely needed
> features to get ping working. For example this file was pain to review
> and I suspect coex support could have been submitted separately.

I find that a bit of a tall order. You haven't looked at this driver
for 9-10 months:

https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/20201230044223.14085-1-pkshih@realtek.com/

Do you expect people to just live with a feature-less driver (read:
unusable) for all that time? As noted in other parts of this thread,
quite a few people are already using this driver; so your suggestion
implies people should submit a completely different driver to you
(i.e., more or less non-working) than the one everybody else wants to
use -- or else suffer for those 9-10 months.

For the record, Realtek _did_ try this for rtw88, where they
partitioned their driver work into stages, submitting you only the
first stuff over the period of 9 months before you merged it:

rtw88 RFC v2; I couldn't find v1:
https://lore.kernel.org/linux-wireless/1538553748-26364-1-git-send-email-yhchuang@realtek.com/
Committed about 9 months later:
https://git.kernel.org/linus/e3037485c68ec1a299ff41160d8fedbd4abc29b9

But it was several months after that before the rest of the
really-usable features were submitted and actually landed properly.

So it sounds like with your suggested approach (like rtw88), it can
take over a year to get a usable driver merged. For this approach, I
guess it's 9+ months (TBD; but you seemed more or less happy with this
version, minus some small comments). I can see why folks would choose
the latter.

Or maybe, those timelines sound altogether bad [1], and we should
consider some alternative. If the review and feedback (or merge) cycle
was quicker, I'm sure people would be happier to split work into
bite-sized chunks. But when it's slow and lacking in transparency,
people are instead incentivized to just publish everything at once. Do
you need additional help? A reviewer team? I do occasionally try to
help things a lot with review on-list, but it's not clear that it has
any bearing on time-to-acceptance, so I don't exactly stretch myself.

Brian

[1] They do to me.

  reply	other threads:[~2021-10-01 17:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 55+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-08-20  4:35 [PATCH v6 00/24] rtw89: add Realtek 802.11ax driver Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 01/24] rtw89: add CAM files Ping-Ke Shih
2021-10-01 14:46   ` Kalle Valo
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 02/24] rtw89: add BT coexistence files Ping-Ke Shih
2021-10-01 15:26   ` Kalle Valo
2021-10-01 17:40     ` Brian Norris [this message]
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 03/24] rtw89: add core and trx files Ping-Ke Shih
2021-10-01 16:26   ` Kalle Valo
2021-10-05  7:16     ` Pkshih
2021-10-05  7:46       ` Kalle Valo
2021-10-05  8:42         ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-10-05  9:32           ` Pkshih
2021-10-05  9:59             ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-10-06  1:35               ` Pkshih
2021-10-06  7:32                 ` Arnd Bergmann
2021-10-06  8:19                   ` Pkshih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 04/24] rtw89: add debug files Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 05/24] rtw89: add efuse files Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 06/24] rtw89: add files to download and communicate with firmware Ping-Ke Shih
2021-10-01 15:55   ` Kalle Valo
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 07/24] rtw89: add MAC files Ping-Ke Shih
2021-10-01 16:13   ` Kalle Valo
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 08/24] rtw89: implement mac80211 ops Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 09/24] rtw89: add pci files Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 10/24] rtw89: add phy files Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 11/24] rtw89: define register names Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 12/24] rtw89: add regulatory support Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 13/24] rtw89: 8852a: add 8852a specific files Ping-Ke Shih
2021-10-01 16:20   ` Kalle Valo
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 14/24] rtw89: 8852a: add 8852a RFK files Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 15/24] rtw89: 8852a: add 8852a RFK tables Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 16/24] rtw89: 8852a: add 8852a tables (1 of 5) Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 17/24] rtw89: 8852a: add 8852a tables (2 " Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 18/24] rtw89: 8852a: add 8852a tables (3 " Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 19/24] rtw89: 8852a: add 8852a tables (4 " Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 20/24] rtw89: 8852a: add 8852a tables (5 " Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 21/24] rtw89: add ser to recover error reported by firmware Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 22/24] rtw89: add PS files Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 23/24] rtw89: add SAR files Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-20  4:35 ` [PATCH v6 24/24] rtw89: add Kconfig and Makefile Ping-Ke Shih
2021-08-22  3:43   ` kernel test robot
2021-08-23  1:37     ` Pkshih
2021-10-01 15:57   ` Kalle Valo
2021-10-01 16:34 ` [PATCH v6 00/24] rtw89: add Realtek 802.11ax driver Kalle Valo
2021-10-01 16:42   ` Larry Finger
2021-10-01 16:46     ` Kalle Valo
2021-10-01 17:18       ` Larry Finger
2021-10-05  5:46         ` Kalle Valo
2021-10-04  6:46   ` Pkshih
2021-10-05  5:52     ` Kalle Valo
2021-10-06  0:10       ` Brian Norris
2021-10-08  4:14         ` Pkshih
2021-10-08  4:11       ` Pkshih
2021-10-09  8:28         ` Kalle Valo
2021-10-12  1:53           ` Pkshih

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