From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93F77C3526E for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2022 22:34:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1388038AbiBHWcI (ORCPT ); Tue, 8 Feb 2022 17:32:08 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:41908 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1386961AbiBHVfQ (ORCPT ); Tue, 8 Feb 2022 16:35:16 -0500 Received: from mail-qt1-x836.google.com (mail-qt1-x836.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::836]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5BBDC0612BA for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2022 13:35:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt1-x836.google.com with SMTP id x5so245306qtw.10 for ; Tue, 08 Feb 2022 13:35:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1QB55jMTplcdYlabtTc/ZFlq8sXgFtNSlzk1Cu5qXMA=; b=iZduEqW1Fq+secAshROZBw3TS9gDpmD3ryna/5cqGsaGJ2+QnzS41ZgwQTjZUQ9aJR gX8vqmN5e/c3fNvEwjNsFvWwtwGJ0tN6K+2iBQQa9yPiLYoq+h0h2jytu8l8Xh9JR+yl FX7eiRLxeZHfZ1NtJnwq2v7AlL8+Peu4U8ZYlxe1iibUlnaJKvqp0hQrGbVkYWys0pOY drREZeKDwvBhuwBivdtTiFFuCdXozrp5Ti1v383N2E+6Y2wUGxQCbChlwXTf/siJuzV6 v4nV5jyJhhWELNECeTjhYEayNGj/ks0Rt0irlfGha9y6oBckQxbD69Ub4SDCQVn3KpKm xzVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1QB55jMTplcdYlabtTc/ZFlq8sXgFtNSlzk1Cu5qXMA=; b=7qG+jJAO2W2WumKF1AlEtA4+uJK4F+sbqaHBMdmpdoos1tIcmI3+b3w+dVTiGSXD+S OqWn5WUJ106jVLzC+84b/r3QWKl0YGjXiAdGvA0317DsaFkx3DZ8F9ejHDrOscSUtJzl j+l9gKMG0TWFJQXLPDoHBHYlPokAotdrKYc5+djQJ7v7mCs+GGa2Qu5mGpEiTnHWtrDq a3rDGDkotcq6f19tpuyIH2RHmvLw9JAhJo2fQiMmK8TeAKwdx3rX/otyo6os3XOneLFZ cJqOi0woj+NAQKno82HQ3TnB2ZewaAJYnDRlsGEKEu7tVbWs2V0l7jTFq+iILbG41OZF 4yTQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531wFuvHGPX7dlXzlDsLz8NdWaH89G5eblpFMJdJmGmbCIox9bGP F54PUfg1pVPQjofQgqUTYq0I76UTZU9eND+1/EmcMQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyXNmgVa1X/Pv0CtstbtUswazDKyzLAkCK1vpTiTSNw68kUrI19g5f1phL6dQvakDtVGrP6eaEHW7qWfUirjOY= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5aca:: with SMTP id d10mr4450416qtd.565.1644356110551; Tue, 08 Feb 2022 13:35:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20220201205534.1962784-1-haoluo@google.com> <20220201205534.1962784-6-haoluo@google.com> <20220203180414.blk6ou3ccmod2qck@ast-mbp.dhcp.thefacebook.com> In-Reply-To: From: Hao Luo Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 13:34:59 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH RFC bpf-next v2 5/5] selftests/bpf: test for pinning for cgroup_view link To: Alexei Starovoitov Cc: Alexei Starovoitov , Andrii Nakryiko , Daniel Borkmann , Martin KaFai Lau , Song Liu , Yonghong Song , KP Singh , Shakeel Butt , Joe Burton , Stanislav Fomichev , bpf , LKML Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 1:20 PM Alexei Starovoitov wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 12:07 PM Hao Luo wrote: > > > > On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 8:29 PM Alexei Starovoitov > > wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 10:27 AM Hao Luo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > In our use case, we can't ask the users who create cgroups to do the > > > > > > pinning. Pinning requires root privilege. In our use case, we have > > > > > > non-root users who can create cgroup directories and still want to > > > > > > read bpf stats. They can't do pinning by themselves. This is why > > > > > > inheritance is a requirement for us. With inheritance, they only need > > > > > > to mkdir in cgroupfs and bpffs (unprivileged operations), no pinning > > > > > > operation is required. Patch 1-4 are needed to implement inheritance. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's also not a good idea in our use case to add a userspace > > > > > > privileged process to monitor cgroupfs operations and perform the > > > > > > pinning. It's more complex and has a higher maintenance cost and > > > > > > runtime overhead, compared to the solution of asking whoever makes > > > > > > cgroups to mkdir in bpffs. The other problem is: if there are nodes in > > > > > > the data center that don't have the userspace process deployed, the > > > > > > stats will be unavailable, which is a no-no for some of our users. > > > > > > > > > > The commit log says that there will be a daemon that does that > > > > > monitoring of cgroupfs. And that daemon needs to mkdir > > > > > directories in bpffs when a new cgroup is created, no? > > > > > The kernel is only doing inheritance of bpf progs into > > > > > new dirs. I think that daemon can pin as well. > > > > > > > > > > The cgroup creation is typically managed by an agent like systemd. > > > > > Sounds like you have your own agent that creates cgroups? > > > > > If so it has to be privileged and it can mkdir in bpffs and pin too ? > > > > > > > > Ah, yes, we have our own daemon to manage cgroups. That daemon creates > > > > the top-level cgroup for each job to run inside. However, the job can > > > > create its own cgroups inside the top-level cgroup, for fine grained > > > > resource control. This doesn't go through the daemon. The job-created > > > > cgroups don't have the pinned objects and this is a no-no for our > > > > users. > > > > > > We can whitelist certain tracepoints to be sleepable and extend > > > tp_btf prog type to include everything from prog_type_syscall. > > > Such prog would attach to cgroup_mkdir and cgroup_release > > > and would call bpf_sys_bpf() helper to pin progs in new bpffs dirs. > > > We can allow prog_type_syscall to do mkdir in bpffs as well. > > > > > > This feature could be useful for similar monitoring/introspection tasks. > > > We can write a program that would monitor bpf prog load/unload > > > and would pin an iterator prog that would show debug info about a prog. > > > Like cat /sys/fs/bpf/progs.debug shows a list of loaded progs. > > > With this feature we can implement: > > > ls /sys/fs/bpf/all_progs.debug/ > > > and each loaded prog would have a corresponding file. > > > The file name would be a program name, for example. > > > cat /sys/fs/bpf/all_progs.debug/my_prog > > > would pretty print info about 'my_prog' bpf program. > > > > > > This way the kernfs/cgroupfs specific logic from patches 1-4 > > > will not be necessary. > > > > > > wdyt? > > > > Thanks Alexei. I gave it more thought in the last couple of days. > > Actually I think it's a good idea, more flexible. It gets rid of the > > need of a user space daemon for monitoring cgroup creation and > > destruction. We could monitor task creations and exits as well, so > > that we can export per-task information (e.g. task_vma_iter) more > > efficiently. > > Yep. Monitoring task creation and exposing via bpf_iter sounds > useful too. > > > A couple of thoughts when thinking about the details: > > > > - Regarding parameterized pinning, I don't think we can have one > > single bpf_iter_link object, but with different parameters. Because > > parameters are part of the bpf_iter_link (bpf_iter_aux_info). So every > > time we pin, we have to attach iter in order to get a new link object > > first. So we need to add attach and detach in bpf_sys_bpf(). > > Makes sense. > I'm adding bpf_link_create to bpf_sys_bpf as part of > the "lskel for kernel" patch set. > The detach is sys_close. It's already available. > > > - We also need to add those syscalls for cleanup: (1) unlink for > > removing pinned obj and (2) rmdir for removing the directory in > > prog_type_syscall. > > Yes. These two would be needed. > And obj_pin too. > > > With these extensions, we can shift some of the bpf operations > > currently performed in system daemons into the kernel. IMHO it's a > > great thing, making system monitoring more flexible. > > Awesome. Sounds like we're converging :) Right. :) Thank you for proposing this solution. This really helps! I'm going to work on a prototype.