Re: Plumbing explicit synchronization through the Linux ecosystem

["Marek Olšák" <maraeo@gmail.com>]

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On Thu., Mar. 19, 2020, 06:51 Daniel Vetter, <daniel@ffwll.ch> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 11:01:57AM +0100, Michel Dänzer wrote:
> > On 2020-03-16 7:33 p.m., Marek Olšák wrote:
> > > On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 5:57 AM Michel Dänzer <michel@daenzer.net>
> wrote:
> > >> On 2020-03-16 4:50 a.m., Marek Olšák wrote:
> > >>> The synchronization works because the Mesa driver waits for idle
> (drains
> > >>> the GFX pipeline) at the end of command buffers and there is only 1
> > >>> graphics queue, so everything is ordered.
> > >>>
> > >>> The GFX pipeline runs asynchronously to the command buffer, meaning
> the
> > >>> command buffer only starts draws and doesn't wait for completion. If
> the
> > >>> Mesa driver didn't wait at the end of the command buffer, the command
> > >>> buffer would finish and a different process could start execution of
> its
> > >>> own command buffer while shaders of the previous process are still
> > >> running.
> > >>>
> > >>> If the Mesa driver submits a command buffer internally (because it's
> > >> full),
> > >>> it doesn't wait, so the GFX pipeline doesn't notice that a command
> buffer
> > >>> ended and a new one started.
> > >>>
> > >>> The waiting at the end of command buffers happens only when the
> flush is
> > >>> external (Swap buffers, glFlush).
> > >>>
> > >>> It's a performance problem, because the GFX queue is blocked until
> the
> > >> GFX
> > >>> pipeline is drained at the end of every frame at least.
> > >>>
> > >>> So explicit fences for SwapBuffers would help.
> > >>
> > >> Not sure what difference it would make, since the same thing needs to
> be
> > >> done for explicit fences as well, doesn't it?
> > >
> > > No. Explicit fences don't require userspace to wait for idle in the
> command
> > > buffer. Fences are signalled when the last draw is complete and caches
> are
> > > flushed. Before that happens, any command buffer that is not dependent
> on
> > > the fence can start execution. There is never a need for the GPU to be
> idle
> > > if there is enough independent work to do.
> >
> > I don't think explicit fences in the context of this discussion imply
> > using that different fence signalling mechanism though. My understanding
> > is that the API proposed by Jason allows implicit fences to be used as
> > explicit ones and vice versa, so presumably they have to use the same
> > signalling mechanism.
> >
> >
> > Anyway, maybe the different fence signalling mechanism you describe
> > could be used by the amdgpu kernel driver in general, then Mesa could
> > drop the waits for idle and get the benefits with implicit sync as well?
>
> Yeah, this is entirely about the programming model visible to userspace.
> There shouldn't be any impact on the driver's choice of a top vs. bottom
> of the gpu pipeline used for synchronization, that's entirely up to what
> you're hw/driver/scheduler can pull off.
>
> Doing a full gfx pipeline flush for shared buffers, when your hw can do
> be, sounds like an issue to me that's not related to this here at all. It
> might be intertwined with amdgpu's special interpretation of dma_resv
> fences though, no idea. We might need to revamp all that. But for a
> userspace client that does nothing fancy (no multiple render buffer
> targets in one bo, or vk style "I write to everything all the time,
> perhaps" stuff) there should be 0 perf difference between implicit sync
> through dma_resv and explicit sync through sync_file/syncobj/dma_fence
> directly.
>
> If there is I'd consider that a bit a driver bug.
>

Last time I checked, there was no fence sync in gnome shell and compiz
after an app passes a buffer to it. So drivers have to invent hacks to work
around it and decrease performance. It's not a driver bug.

Implicit sync really means that apps and compositors don't sync, so the
driver has to guess when it should sync.

Marek


-Daniel
> --
> Daniel Vetter
> Software Engineer, Intel Corporation
> http://blog.ffwll.ch
>

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