From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4563FC433DF for ; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 19:11:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2491320720 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 19:11:29 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="olNdwx7E" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1732813AbgFSTL2 (ORCPT ); Fri, 19 Jun 2020 15:11:28 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:38104 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728081AbgFSTL1 (ORCPT ); Fri, 19 Jun 2020 15:11:27 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x342.google.com (mail-wm1-x342.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::342]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E124C06174E; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 12:11:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x342.google.com with SMTP id l26so9394165wme.3; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 12:11:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=chbWz7xzFy579TbWBa7IgoDaVrcNNu3e+ZV8C+3+5ts=; b=olNdwx7EKNULbKgME9rHSKmUDJKGownFmH7K7UdqCiyAe31tms05xsgDMDHl0NOZyn e4JT2rb2s3q5lfqM11BP72moDoCJO7fo8XhUHqRhLmM9Rkjt/Mcz6AzymyLaafuA8Ulb XTVeNEMS1qKMS0ZFjOH4/+4FZ+XMgy0Z+itG4tjjFKBv1tiJ5h7bNhFkbXDaSQ/Fpz4X ea1xDim6+696Be1q0Zr3RvYmOvlbnd3iJrBAwzkYAU7fiPUm1Tydf4L5z5X/RqFkIs6D rXFOo0qB32FQo9vj/cdysyW33DCxg/zYBiOMh8UCXO3mP8EhhV49/E8yMaB/+LvgfTFf Q3rQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=chbWz7xzFy579TbWBa7IgoDaVrcNNu3e+ZV8C+3+5ts=; b=VdWFgVwlnRqe8zFuiuGj8opy7XaeoK5ZpfZCPIrgo/CuJbrl+ZkrYpPuSiHHZnqd35 xsxqI6V3EiZW7/QxmLrT3UZ8OZ5bSRQ6GUfiiiaEm4BMlrLnPVel/vYaLr+fs4fil6eb QIw34rlQ+/uhxRjSlWG/1Lvw6UQp6zcJjZ++poAgorFrMhmeDrnLsUuIInECsorFvRbd eQslSf0/1BAFV2f4gmTk6fTH4hf6MQ7AcqI6qgs5Fc08p9wfO/PyIjULwdvkLHG3amet pNbe7PZDlev6biEPgzvs90AmLpk84RiNdTCYtoUKqGpjuaQV4FT2OBTTWQwaSNkBGy23 Yn8g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530KAt8ILVAbMWEsY1a5MmdQAlZ3TxgiKMH1KFm+akFgx5eFo4Ja Idycx9xCG/P8UURrK5eiYgL2yhbplaXe+6lcFUo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwcHFy0tih4Jg9lH/i7Ldu0yNdrmwrIvxAKTo0TP4xm3PszQ+8aXnDybDwn0lmkl3Yy4KGqnVo3R2CnXN9sXgU= X-Received: by 2002:a7b:cd96:: with SMTP id y22mr5280023wmj.56.1592593883868; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 12:11:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200617152835.GF6578@ziepe.ca> <20200618150051.GS20149@phenom.ffwll.local> <20200618172338.GM6578@ziepe.ca> <20200619113934.GN6578@ziepe.ca> <20200619151551.GP6578@ziepe.ca> <20200619172308.GQ6578@ziepe.ca> <20200619180935.GA10009@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <20200619180935.GA10009@redhat.com> From: Alex Deucher Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 15:11:12 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Linaro-mm-sig] [PATCH 04/18] dma-fence: prime lockdep annotations To: Jerome Glisse Cc: Jason Gunthorpe , linux-rdma , =?UTF-8?Q?Thomas_Hellstr=C3=B6m_=28Intel=29?= , Maarten Lankhorst , LKML , DRI Development , =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_K=C3=B6nig?= , "moderated list:DMA BUFFER SHARING FRAMEWORK" , Thomas Hellstrom , amd-gfx list , Daniel Vetter , Daniel Vetter , Mika Kuoppala , Intel Graphics Development , "open list:DMA BUFFER SHARING FRAMEWORK" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: linux-rdma-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 2:09 PM Jerome Glisse wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 02:23:08PM -0300, Jason Gunthorpe wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 06:19:41PM +0200, Daniel Vetter wrote: > > > > > The madness is only that device B's mmu notifier might need to wait > > > for fence_B so that the dma operation finishes. Which in turn has to > > > wait for device A to finish first. > > > > So, it sound, fundamentally you've got this graph of operations across > > an unknown set of drivers and the kernel cannot insert itself in > > dma_fence hand offs to re-validate any of the buffers involved? > > Buffers which by definition cannot be touched by the hardware yet. > > > > That really is a pretty horrible place to end up.. > > > > Pinning really is right answer for this kind of work flow. I think > > converting pinning to notifers should not be done unless notifier > > invalidation is relatively bounded. > > > > I know people like notifiers because they give a bit nicer performance > > in some happy cases, but this cripples all the bad cases.. > > > > If pinning doesn't work for some reason maybe we should address that? > > Note that the dma fence is only true for user ptr buffer which predate > any HMM work and thus were using mmu notifier already. You need the > mmu notifier there because of fork and other corner cases. > > For nouveau the notifier do not need to wait for anything it can update > the GPU page table right away. Modulo needing to write to GPU memory > using dma engine if the GPU page table is in GPU memory that is not > accessible from the CPU but that's never the case for nouveau so far > (but i expect it will be at one point). > > > So i see this as 2 different cases, the user ptr case, which does pin > pages by the way, where things are synchronous. Versus the HMM cases > where everything is asynchronous. > > > I probably need to warn AMD folks again that using HMM means that you > must be able to update the GPU page table asynchronously without > fence wait. The issue for AMD is that they already update their GPU > page table using DMA engine. I believe this is still doable if they > use a kernel only DMA engine context, where only kernel can queue up > jobs so that you do not need to wait for unrelated things and you can > prioritize GPU page table update which should translate in fast GPU > page table update without DMA fence. All devices which support recoverable page faults also have a dedicated paging engine for the kernel driver which the driver already makes use of. We can also update the GPU page tables with the CPU. Alex > > > > > Full disclosure: We are aware that we've designed ourselves into an > > > impressive corner here, and there's lots of talks going on about > > > untangling the dma synchronization from the memory management > > > completely. But > > > > I think the documenting is really important: only GPU should be using > > this stuff and driving notifiers this way. Complete NO for any > > totally-not-a-GPU things in drivers/accel for sure. > > Yes for user that expect HMM they need to be asynchronous. But it is > hard to revert user ptr has it was done a long time ago. > > Cheers, > J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me > > _______________________________________________ > amd-gfx mailing list > amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org > https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/amd-gfx From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA3B2C433E2 for ; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 19:11:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher 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15:11:12 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Linaro-mm-sig] [PATCH 04/18] dma-fence: prime lockdep annotations To: Jerome Glisse X-BeenThere: dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Direct Rendering Infrastructure - Development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: linux-rdma , =?UTF-8?Q?Thomas_Hellstr=C3=B6m_=28Intel=29?= , LKML , DRI Development , "moderated list:DMA BUFFER SHARING FRAMEWORK" , Jason Gunthorpe , Thomas Hellstrom , amd-gfx list , Daniel Vetter , "open list:DMA BUFFER SHARING FRAMEWORK" , Intel Graphics Development , =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_K=C3=B6nig?= , Mika Kuoppala Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Errors-To: dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "dri-devel" T24gRnJpLCBKdW4gMTksIDIwMjAgYXQgMjowOSBQTSBKZXJvbWUgR2xpc3NlIDxqZ2xpc3NlQHJl ZGhhdC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+Cj4gT24gRnJpLCBKdW4gMTksIDIwMjAgYXQgMDI6MjM6MDhQTSAt 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<20200617152835.GF6578@ziepe.ca> <20200618150051.GS20149@phenom.ffwll.local> <20200618172338.GM6578@ziepe.ca> <20200619113934.GN6578@ziepe.ca> <20200619151551.GP6578@ziepe.ca> <20200619172308.GQ6578@ziepe.ca> <20200619180935.GA10009@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <20200619180935.GA10009@redhat.com> From: Alex Deucher Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 15:11:12 -0400 Message-ID: To: Jerome Glisse Subject: Re: [Intel-gfx] [Linaro-mm-sig] [PATCH 04/18] dma-fence: prime lockdep annotations X-BeenThere: intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Intel graphics driver community testing & development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: linux-rdma , LKML , DRI Development , "moderated list:DMA BUFFER SHARING FRAMEWORK" , Jason Gunthorpe , Thomas Hellstrom , amd-gfx list , Daniel Vetter , "open list:DMA BUFFER SHARING FRAMEWORK" , Intel Graphics Development , =?UTF-8?Q?Christian_K=C3=B6nig?= , Mika Kuoppala Content-Type: 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