From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.8 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MENTIONS_GIT_HOSTING, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED6D3C4361B for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2020 09:27:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7B2E22DFA for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2020 09:27:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727272AbgLTJ0n convert rfc822-to-8bit (ORCPT ); Sun, 20 Dec 2020 04:26:43 -0500 Received: from mail-wr1-f51.google.com ([209.85.221.51]:41299 "EHLO mail-wr1-f51.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1727072AbgLTJ0m (ORCPT ); Sun, 20 Dec 2020 04:26:42 -0500 Received: by mail-wr1-f51.google.com with SMTP id a12so7621545wrv.8; Sun, 20 Dec 2020 01:26:26 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PrcFQyXgDxVl5IPzK8WqBb5XMYDudyd6Wbz/pNJDrYU=; b=Vxkd1Jk9CXI2VMksX7sdRUD46RMmcoBMCPpHRhMqiydjXN4DBaimhPoYy83Ke6o4yE LYLHSJmPic78yQjQ1pQw7CbxAy+uxYsNUF0C+zPrxZWofMg/REjRIq8PHy9xMySKwW9p QuKznT6hjSWauUPB3zRf58aYiOsD+Qez+okfNim00h9RUH4zQ7Eby/YGQwrR78kCyuGH L8R1w1m4P+pXd41FRul6w7RrI5CwAVCX5URVlpuMyjfS6paq5EXyswmqRB5xb/4lkr7B ZMI2XVnjZvIR8Hj0U2IqezLWKHzRYvYcK1b4VX9RGUtsD7cOsDkHfDhh+llKSUTffSaT e9uw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531fjMIik0Bq5q1V2K1eAmg7NXhRPIgX1c8yIQPzC9f+3NzDtoIt IaMCCO6C17FF9Qo07ZTF4fVam/UL/wzCw3F/Rls= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzH7xqo/OCXD9vfd+WzUHPEyail85ouugds8QQI9RMWGZ6Lxwx+ZWoEmx5jOebidAzD0+xcPBiPHkvRq53VhGU= X-Received: by 2002:adf:eb07:: with SMTP id s7mr12692947wrn.414.1608456361226; Sun, 20 Dec 2020 01:26:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201218184347.2180772-1-sam@ravnborg.org> <20201219214054.GB3132151@ravnborg.org> In-Reply-To: From: Romain Dolbeau Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2020 10:25:49 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/13] sparc32: sunset sun4m and sun4d To: Julian Calaby Cc: Sam Ravnborg , David S Miller , sparclinux , Andreas Larsson , Arnd Bergmann , Alexey Dobriyan , Al Viro , Andrew Morton , Anshuman Khandual , Arvind Sankar , Christian Brauner , Denis Efremov , Dmitry Safonov <0x7f454c46@gmail.com>, Geert Uytterhoeven , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Ira Weiny , Lorenzo Pieralisi , Mark Rutland , Mike Rapoport , Pekka Enberg , Peter Zijlstra , Stephen Rothwell , Thomas Gleixner , Will Deacon , Willy Tarreau , LKML , debian-sparc , gentoo-sparc@lists.gentoo.org, info@temlib.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Le dim. 20 déc. 2020 à 09:54, Julian Calaby a écrit : > If I want to run them, assuming the hardware still works, I need to > netboot them as I cannot find working, compatible HDDs for them as > everything has switched to SATA or SAS. SCSI2SD () are a bit expensive, but solve that problem (I own both a V5 and a V6, both work well in my SPARCstations, tried sun4c and sun4m). As it takes micro-sd cards, it's quite easy to keep multiple OSes on hand. > Then there's the issue of finding a monitor as they're not > electrically compatible with VGA Huh? There is Sun's 13W3-to-vga adapters and cables, and many monitors will sync to Sun's frequency (though not the most recent LCDs whose analog circuitry is pathetic compared to old-school CRTs). Some framebuffers will output 1280x1024 (rarer than for 1152x900), and some can be coerced to do almost anything with some Forth knowledge (see e.g. , again blowing my own horn here sorry...). > (...) booting one up for fun is simply impractical An SCSI2SD and either a null-modem serial cable or a Sun keyboard/13w3 cable/17"LCD combo and you're good to go. You might need another unix-like box to netboot the system. > I believe that Gentoo is architecture-neutral enough that it'd work, > but I believe that you'll have to compile everything - there'll be no > pre-built anything for sparc32 Trying gentoo is on my todo list... has been for a long time :-( > and as it's fairly slow hardware by > today's standards, that's going to take a long time, however you could > probably use distcc and cross-compilers to speed it up. Isn't that what Qemu is for ? :-) I've managed to recompile LLVM and clang in NetBSD 9 for my SS20, one by cross-compiling (LLVM requires too much memory), the other in QEmu. Unfortunately, Qemu doesn't yet support mt-tcg (multithreaded emulation) for sparc so single-core only - still faster than the HW, mostly because of incomparably faster I/O. > If there were more people using it or more testing, or more distros > supporting it - not just (theoretically?) working on it - then I'd be > fighting to keep it. I wish I had some arguments for that point... I will just re-mention Qemu, as it makes testing quite easy and reasonably not-too-slow. Cordially, -- Romain Dolbeau From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Romain Dolbeau Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2020 09:25:49 +0000 Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/13] sparc32: sunset sun4m and sun4d Message-Id: List-Id: References: <20201218184347.2180772-1-sam@ravnborg.org> <20201219214054.GB3132151@ravnborg.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To: Julian Calaby Cc: Sam Ravnborg , David S Miller , sparclinux , Andreas Larsson , Arnd Bergmann , Alexey Dobriyan , Al Viro , Andrew Morton , Anshuman Khandual , Arvind Sankar , Christian Brauner , Denis Efremov , Dmitry Safonov <0x7f454c46@gmail.com>, Geert Uytterhoeven , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Ira Weiny , Lorenzo Pieralisi , Mark Rutland , Mike Rapoport , Pekka Enberg , Peter Zijlstra , Stephen Rothwell , Thomas Gleixner , Will Deacon , Willy Tarreau , LKML , debian-sparc , gentoo-sparc@lists.gentoo.org, info@temlib.org Le dim. 20 déc. 2020 à 09:54, Julian Calaby a écrit : > If I want to run them, assuming the hardware still works, I need to > netboot them as I cannot find working, compatible HDDs for them as > everything has switched to SATA or SAS. SCSI2SD () are a bit expensive, but solve that problem (I own both a V5 and a V6, both work well in my SPARCstations, tried sun4c and sun4m). As it takes micro-sd cards, it's quite easy to keep multiple OSes on hand. > Then there's the issue of finding a monitor as they're not > electrically compatible with VGA Huh? There is Sun's 13W3-to-vga adapters and cables, and many monitors will sync to Sun's frequency (though not the most recent LCDs whose analog circuitry is pathetic compared to old-school CRTs). Some framebuffers will output 1280x1024 (rarer than for 1152x900), and some can be coerced to do almost anything with some Forth knowledge (see e.g. , again blowing my own horn here sorry...). > (...) booting one up for fun is simply impractical An SCSI2SD and either a null-modem serial cable or a Sun keyboard/13w3 cable/17"LCD combo and you're good to go. You might need another unix-like box to netboot the system. > I believe that Gentoo is architecture-neutral enough that it'd work, > but I believe that you'll have to compile everything - there'll be no > pre-built anything for sparc32 Trying gentoo is on my todo list... has been for a long time :-( > and as it's fairly slow hardware by > today's standards, that's going to take a long time, however you could > probably use distcc and cross-compilers to speed it up. Isn't that what Qemu is for ? :-) I've managed to recompile LLVM and clang in NetBSD 9 for my SS20, one by cross-compiling (LLVM requires too much memory), the other in QEmu. Unfortunately, Qemu doesn't yet support mt-tcg (multithreaded emulation) for sparc so single-core only - still faster than the HW, mostly because of incomparably faster I/O. > If there were more people using it or more testing, or more distros > supporting it - not just (theoretically?) working on it - then I'd be > fighting to keep it. I wish I had some arguments for that point... I will just re-mention Qemu, as it makes testing quite easy and reasonably not-too-slow. Cordially, -- Romain Dolbeau