From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42C7CA9EB9 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 22:22:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9605821BE5 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 22:22:47 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="GrFesmFt" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S2407858AbfJWWWr (ORCPT ); Wed, 23 Oct 2019 18:22:47 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f52.google.com ([209.85.221.52]:38061 "EHLO mail-wr1-f52.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S2407855AbfJWWWq (ORCPT ); Wed, 23 Oct 2019 18:22:46 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f52.google.com with SMTP id v9so12490596wrq.5 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:22:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=MbP7FAnNW4lzJOOJLlPcQu6DfBQwczijiTVcJlcur9w=; b=GrFesmFtRQ9v1wS5yK9jx94AIhodbF3J3vXr/WDXcTI/KJUjWo7CifIoep2bl1Anr5 k7QT+/uo20J/npir7PFAimVwuqX0bCuza0GoDk5NvUW68emxyqwC3v16ot94e/UR/myD 9hhHmTk3SRfn7N0OQNM+HXoCYIHN0Ns7AIGJAmfks5mItzIkeHqQ+Gurj7Xeeq7ERu7f AVbwIdTqy/esUTcXEf3q5CS4cJWbJ4APnzQh/rYGlBuoMRo2JXs1Pb7BONbyvMS7CW+a AGg8uH4tArv6b64EcTrR8aJjLkcqr2J2nLXY0N0hXLBZg8g2e51dEHtTMCbqZGiCNzdl aGjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MbP7FAnNW4lzJOOJLlPcQu6DfBQwczijiTVcJlcur9w=; b=IeU7ElbI37EaHin90BTad6oV/npzvTlWghinaSXMhQUL2Mrm93JRlvjNsuYBVMIntp pdaepbflnp2J4kK2/55LxZu77XQ6Y9TPOy/smITT9BcSUU+kvO/eaH4SHmP7Z6lpTYjq OXkgAjjDJQjoOaBV+mhUmZP71j7R+JuxBApqDNDvKThECVR6+VYdePHdcC2hGqzhVzKp Md8lsK0e6wptcx7Ty8Dj7bWs87VdNhvJh5Nd1RleM2K/eQu2m1S2mgl/CMlLVI9b7yDb bCiIsNTgp49AzFEbCkvX3+hyZ9SJX+qPgq1OlUO8L6Hv9ujG/vIlK2pJ1JzOilDrnmii yPtw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVL5HVbh8Gk6rFEunRRhaKMPB7Ypxaj8j0T9QuDZQM1xx/W4H/a 4Mw85/pwp5puj6nWZ7RKrDC/TdEJunuJChUK2aI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy2TMA5z6TfKEzNGPOiLAdvtUNcN6VRxxuOq54GPi1Q2qhwaNv486qyL9AdceBWHoNQN7BPcHhFbfam3nTTjtI= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:498a:: with SMTP id r10mr843849wrq.129.1571869364521; Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:22:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20191022105413.pj6i3ydetnfgnkzh@pali> <20191023115001.vp4woh56k33b6hiq@pali> <20191023171611.qfcwfce2roe3k3qw@pali> In-Reply-To: From: Richard Weinberger Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2019 00:22:32 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Is rename(2) atomic on FAT? To: Chris Murphy Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Pali_Roh=C3=A1r?= , Linux FS Devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: linux-fsdevel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 11:56 PM Chris Murphy wrote: > Any atomicity that depends on journal commits cannot be considered to > have atomicity in a boot context, because bootloaders don't do journal > replay. It's completely ignored. It depends on the bootloader. If you care about atomicity you need to handle the journal. There are also filesystems which *require* the journal to be handled. In that case you can still replay to memory. And yes, filesystem implementations in many bootloaders are in beyond shameful state. > If a journal is present, is it appropriate to consider it a separate > and optional part of the file system? No. This is filesystem specific. -- Thanks, //richard