From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F653C433E0 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 12:33:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AB80223DB for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 12:33:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1726915AbhAKMd5 (ORCPT ); Mon, 11 Jan 2021 07:33:57 -0500 Received: from mail.kernel.org ([198.145.29.99]:44304 "EHLO mail.kernel.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726224AbhAKMd4 (ORCPT ); Mon, 11 Jan 2021 07:33:56 -0500 Received: by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 89F0F22AAF for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 12:33:15 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=kernel.org; s=k20201202; t=1610368395; bh=yXKODVd5TEykAAHQEUTv6Lm1lMaSuUtCpmCOou3eymQ=; h=References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:Subject:To:Cc:From; b=PnjnHhKW4LH8QVex919JalF9HdZb30dCk/UUEbYm5nMt0D0PflszGL2OytxaMu89k KaxUpJGNWxI+90fOJE2C4Mg70ti7qMx4j/csMhJ2OkcpnlmR2bx9RDet/6paGPPUCc S/Xi8S4zb6Yl4M5fLxkCvkJ8wLioDM2dRRMpsoWQ5128uwvM6lSD0L6Y9XAhUs5OKV cL+qRkpGsXXpZiddHZKc5Ajpb6NBYrRGxMnUfXgquQH+RYjCIEgDgMr8QqHnX63opT RQQVNId6AD1hvtqqh1coI9z+hO4x5HH1pTRJfDnd3QiXAUUMWyUYsKhxFGsM7tiPVn KMK/iJgpzM2ag== Received: by mail-oi1-f170.google.com with SMTP id s2so19952873oij.2 for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 04:33:15 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532K0VEKXsoAI/0H9gYKYedc8QbX014B0HUKoj1s94ctgEHrhpjy K9jiGW+VCTpWudkTYz5wPKFZv1Qs0GGx47qO7l4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwg0xCZhOMudD1jN7Qzr5yMYHVlTwVmqGCcjFEU/lh7xdcaeMJ07+Dk8nP/y61I2n4L4OA27cjMHbngG1WAzMI= X-Received: by 2002:aca:44d:: with SMTP id 74mr10251000oie.4.1610368394083; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 04:33:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <67171E13-6786-4B44-A8C2-3302963B055F@gmail.com> <1702853.1557dWfJA4@linux-e202.suse.de> <20210111003320.GQ1551@shell.armlinux.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <20210111003320.GQ1551@shell.armlinux.org.uk> From: Arnd Bergmann Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:32:57 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead To: Russell King - ARM Linux admin Cc: Linus Walleij , Fabian Vogt , Baruch Siach , Geert Uytterhoeven , Neil Armstrong , Viresh Kumar , Daniel Tang , Jamie Iles , Krzysztof Adamski , Alexander Shiyan , Michael Ellerman , Wei Xu , Oleksij Rempel , Alex Elder , Marc Gonzalez , Hans Ulli Kroll , =?UTF-8?Q?Uwe_Kleine=2DK=C3=B6nig?= , Steven Rostedt , Vladimir Zapolskiy , Lubomir Rintel , Koen Vandeputte , Linux ARM , Barry Song , Thomas Bogendoerfer , Yoshinori Sato , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Jonas Jensen , Hartley Sweeten , Mark Salter , Shawn Guo Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 1:33 AM Russell King - ARM Linux admin wrote: > On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:33:56PM +0100, Linus Walleij wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:16 PM Fabian Vogt wrote: > > > Am Samstag, 9. Januar 2021, 23:20:48 CET schrieb Arnd Bergmann: > > > (https://lore.kernel.org/linux-arm-kernel/20190805085847.25554-1-linus.walleij@linaro.org) > > > was the biggest required change so far. > > > > What we're seeing here is actually a port that is: > > - Finished > > - Has a complete set of working drivers > > - Supported > > - Just works > > > > I.e. it doesn't see much patches because it is pretty much perfect. > > > > We are so unused to this situation that it can be mistaken for > > the device being abandoned. > > > > I think it was Russell who first pointed out that this is actually > > the case for a few machines. > > Yes indeed. I find it utterly rediculous that there is a perception > that you constantly need to be patching a bit of software for it to > not be seen as abandoned. If a piece of software works and does what > it needs to do, why does it need to be continually patched? It makes > no sense to me. I don't know where you got the impression that this is what I want to do. I used this as a first approximation because it reduced the number of platforms to look at from 71 to under 20, just by looking at what patches went into the kernel. I could further get the number down to the 14 platforms listed in this email by knowing some of the users of platforms that did not see a lot of updates but are well supported, like highbank or dove. We have already confirmed axxia, digicolor, kona and nspire as platforms that we want to keep for now, and a new volunteer to maintain axxia, and I did not get the impression that any of the maintainers were overly stressed out by being sent an email inquiry five years after the last contact. I would prefer an occasional Tested-by tag for the cleanup patches that did make it in (yes, I counted those as activity), but I understand that everyone is busy and these are low-maintenance platforms. > I have my xf86-video-armada which I use on the Dove Cubox and iMX6 > platforms. It does what I need it to, and I haven't updated the > userspace on these platforms for a while. Therefore, I've no reason > to patch that code, and no one has sent me patches. Does that mean > it's abandoned? Absolutely not. I listed the dove platform in the first table specifically because the plan back in 2014 was to completely remove the platform once that hardware is working with the modern mach-mvebu platform, and I hoped that the transition had finished by now. Arnd From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIMWL_WL_HIGH, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419F3C433DB for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 12:34:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2DA0223DB for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 12:34:52 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org D2DA0223DB Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=kernel.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; 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Mon, 11 Jan 2021 04:33:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <67171E13-6786-4B44-A8C2-3302963B055F@gmail.com> <1702853.1557dWfJA4@linux-e202.suse.de> <20210111003320.GQ1551@shell.armlinux.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <20210111003320.GQ1551@shell.armlinux.org.uk> From: Arnd Bergmann Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:32:57 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead To: Russell King - ARM Linux admin X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20210111_073316_610331_5D8EDB0A X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 30.07 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Baruch Siach , Geert Uytterhoeven , Neil Armstrong , Viresh Kumar , Linus Walleij , Fabian Vogt , Daniel Tang , Jamie Iles , Krzysztof Adamski , Alexander Shiyan , Michael Ellerman , Wei Xu , Oleksij Rempel , Alex Elder , Marc Gonzalez , Hans Ulli Kroll , =?UTF-8?Q?Uwe_Kleine=2DK=C3=B6nig?= , Steven Rostedt , Vladimir Zapolskiy , Lubomir Rintel , Koen Vandeputte , Linux ARM , Barry Song , Thomas Bogendoerfer , Yoshinori Sato , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Jonas Jensen , Hartley Sweeten , Mark Salter , Shawn Guo Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 1:33 AM Russell King - ARM Linux admin wrote: > On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 10:33:56PM +0100, Linus Walleij wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 7:16 PM Fabian Vogt wrote: > > > Am Samstag, 9. Januar 2021, 23:20:48 CET schrieb Arnd Bergmann: > > > (https://lore.kernel.org/linux-arm-kernel/20190805085847.25554-1-linus.walleij@linaro.org) > > > was the biggest required change so far. > > > > What we're seeing here is actually a port that is: > > - Finished > > - Has a complete set of working drivers > > - Supported > > - Just works > > > > I.e. it doesn't see much patches because it is pretty much perfect. > > > > We are so unused to this situation that it can be mistaken for > > the device being abandoned. > > > > I think it was Russell who first pointed out that this is actually > > the case for a few machines. > > Yes indeed. I find it utterly rediculous that there is a perception > that you constantly need to be patching a bit of software for it to > not be seen as abandoned. If a piece of software works and does what > it needs to do, why does it need to be continually patched? It makes > no sense to me. I don't know where you got the impression that this is what I want to do. I used this as a first approximation because it reduced the number of platforms to look at from 71 to under 20, just by looking at what patches went into the kernel. I could further get the number down to the 14 platforms listed in this email by knowing some of the users of platforms that did not see a lot of updates but are well supported, like highbank or dove. We have already confirmed axxia, digicolor, kona and nspire as platforms that we want to keep for now, and a new volunteer to maintain axxia, and I did not get the impression that any of the maintainers were overly stressed out by being sent an email inquiry five years after the last contact. I would prefer an occasional Tested-by tag for the cleanup patches that did make it in (yes, I counted those as activity), but I understand that everyone is busy and these are low-maintenance platforms. > I have my xf86-video-armada which I use on the Dove Cubox and iMX6 > platforms. It does what I need it to, and I haven't updated the > userspace on these platforms for a while. Therefore, I've no reason > to patch that code, and no one has sent me patches. Does that mean > it's abandoned? Absolutely not. I listed the dove platform in the first table specifically because the plan back in 2014 was to completely remove the platform once that hardware is working with the modern mach-mvebu platform, and I hoped that the transition had finished by now. Arnd _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel