[Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Shamju Joseph]

Hi all,

(1) I had a frustrating experience with Xenomai. I tried to install
different combinations of Xenomai and Linux kernels. Some had compiling
error, some combination compiles but doesn't boot, some boots but doesn't
show up properly on 'dmesg | grep Xenomai' and some boots perfect but PC
hung when run Xenomai test programs like latency.

(2) When we install standard Linux distributions like RHEL & Fedora, the
distribution will take care about installing the right device drivers for
the PC. But when we install vanilla kernel patched with Xenomai, how do we
ensure that the right drivers were installed? Is there any standard
procedure to do this?

(3) I get the build errors like the following with most of the kernel &
Xenomai combinations. But PC boots OK most of the time with this new
patched kernel.

#make modules_install install

ERROR: modinfo: could not find module twofish

ERROR: modinfo: could not find module twofish_common

ERROR: modinfo: could not find module dell_wmi

ERROR: modinfo: could not find module wmi

ERROR: modinfo: could not find module video

Are the problems mentioned above in (1) due to this?

(4) I have listed below different combinations I tried and the result for
the reference (On Dell laptop - Precision M4500, core i5 processor, RHEL 6).

a) linux-2.6.34.5 with xenomai-2.5.6

==> Can't boot

b) linux-2.6.35.9. with xenomai-2.5.6

On booting, the message appears
"MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to IO-APIC",
But booted, and Laptop is hung on running latency.

c) linux-2.6.37 with xenomai-2.5.6

On booting, the message appears

"MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to IO-APIC", But booted.

But shows only one cpu core instead of 4 cores! (on cat /proc/cpuinfo)

d) linux-2.6.35.9 with xenomai-2.6.0

On booting, the message appears

"MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to IO-APIC", But booted.

Laptop hung on running Xenomai test programs

[giving "noapic" as kernel boot argument also did n't help]

e) linux-2.6.38.8 with xenomai-2.6.1

==> Can't boot
(5) I also tried with other PCs (Core duo / Pentium / with FC8) and had
same experience.
Can somebody please give some suggestions?

-Shamju Joseph

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Willy Lambert]

2012/11/29 Shamju Joseph <shamju.joseph@gmail.com>:
> Hi all,
>
> (1) I had a frustrating experience with Xenomai. I tried to install
> different combinations of Xenomai and Linux kernels. Some had compiling
> error, some combination compiles but doesn't boot, some boots but doesn't
> show up properly on 'dmesg | grep Xenomai' and some boots perfect but PC
> hung when run Xenomai test programs like latency.
>
> (2) When we install standard Linux distributions like RHEL & Fedora, the
> distribution will take care about installing the right device drivers for
> the PC. But when we install vanilla kernel patched with Xenomai, how do we
> ensure that the right drivers were installed? Is there any standard
> procedure to do this?
>
> (3) I get the build errors like the following with most of the kernel &
> Xenomai combinations. But PC boots OK most of the time with this new
> patched kernel.
>
> #make modules_install install
>
> ERROR: modinfo: could not find module twofish
>
> ERROR: modinfo: could not find module twofish_common
>
> ERROR: modinfo: could not find module dell_wmi
>
> ERROR: modinfo: could not find module wmi
>
> ERROR: modinfo: could not find module video
>
> Are the problems mentioned above in (1) due to this?
>
> (4) I have listed below different combinations I tried and the result for
> the reference (On Dell laptop - Precision M4500, core i5 processor, RHEL 6).
>
> a) linux-2.6.34.5 with xenomai-2.5.6
>
> ==> Can't boot
>
> b) linux-2.6.35.9. with xenomai-2.5.6
>
> On booting, the message appears
> "MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to IO-APIC",
> But booted, and Laptop is hung on running latency.
>
> c) linux-2.6.37 with xenomai-2.5.6
>
> On booting, the message appears
>
> "MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to IO-APIC", But booted.
>
> But shows only one cpu core instead of 4 cores! (on cat /proc/cpuinfo)
>
> d) linux-2.6.35.9 with xenomai-2.6.0
>
> On booting, the message appears
>
> "MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to IO-APIC", But booted.
>
> Laptop hung on running Xenomai test programs
>
> [giving "noapic" as kernel boot argument also did n't help]
>
> e) linux-2.6.38.8 with xenomai-2.6.1
>
> ==> Can't boot
> (5) I also tried with other PCs (Core duo / Pentium / with FC8) and had
> same experience.
> Can somebody please give some suggestions?
>

I think that you have more a "compile my kernel" frustration that a
xenomai frustration. And then I'm not sure it's the better place to
post.

Before playing with Xenomai be sure you can build a standard version
of the kernel on your machine and boot with it. Then you will be able
to patch your kernel with Xenomai "quite easily" in following
intructions.

There are many instructions for building your kernel on the web, for instance :
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
I personnaly use the "Alternate Build Method: The Old-Fashioned Debian
Way" (maybe because I'm on Debian) which is quite simple and efficient

The steps are always :
1_ getting linux kernel sources
2_ configuring kernel
3_ compiling
4_ installing

1/
The current common method is using git. I personnaly using ketchup :
http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/linux_kernel/kernel_configuration/apas04.html
which is very clever to use (ketchup -r 3.X.X that's all). You should
be able to get it from your packet manager.

2/
The key to build successfully a kernel is to have a proper .config
file (configuring kernel and modules). What often helps when starting
from 0, is to get the .config file you are  currently using , which is
in general in "/boot/config-[your kernel number]". You can get the
current kernel number with "uname -a". Copy this file in your linux
source tree and then use "make menuconfig" or anything equivalent (you
may forgot the "make oldconfig" for now. If you don't know what
options mean you won't be able to pick anything different from default
values anyway).
You should manage the "Local Version" option which is under :
"General Setup->Local version"
to append a personnal version tag into your generated packet, so you
may add a "fisrt-try" "second-try-nearly-working"
"third-time-this-is-the-good-one"



3/ 4/ see documentation linked. If you have the buildchain installed
(gcc, ...) it should not be a problem.


when you manage to build and boot on you personnal recompiled kernel
(choose a newer version from your current one for instance), then, and
only then you will be able to try with xenomai, read and follow
instructions and come back here to get support if necessary.


P.S. : to xenomai community, is there a problem if I continue some
support here, or should we go somewhere else more on topic ?


> -Shamju Joseph
> _______________________________________________
> Xenomai mailing list
> Xenomai@xenomai.org
> http://www.xenomai.org/mailman/listinfo/xenomai

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Willy Lambert]

2012/11/30 Willy Lambert <lambert.willy@gmail.com>:
> 2012/11/29 Shamju Joseph <shamju.joseph@gmail.com>:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> (1) I had a frustrating experience with Xenomai. I tried to install
>> different combinations of Xenomai and Linux kernels. Some had compiling
>> error, some combination compiles but doesn't boot, some boots but doesn't
>> show up properly on 'dmesg | grep Xenomai' and some boots perfect but PC
>> hung when run Xenomai test programs like latency.
>>
>> (2) When we install standard Linux distributions like RHEL & Fedora, the
>> distribution will take care about installing the right device drivers for
>> the PC. But when we install vanilla kernel patched with Xenomai, how do we
>> ensure that the right drivers were installed? Is there any standard
>> procedure to do this?
>>
>> (3) I get the build errors like the following with most of the kernel &
>> Xenomai combinations. But PC boots OK most of the time with this new
>> patched kernel.
>>
>> #make modules_install install
>>
>> ERROR: modinfo: could not find module twofish
>>
>> ERROR: modinfo: could not find module twofish_common
>>
>> ERROR: modinfo: could not find module dell_wmi
>>
>> ERROR: modinfo: could not find module wmi
>>
>> ERROR: modinfo: could not find module video
>>
>> Are the problems mentioned above in (1) due to this?
>>
>> (4) I have listed below different combinations I tried and the result for
>> the reference (On Dell laptop - Precision M4500, core i5 processor, RHEL 6).
>>
>> a) linux-2.6.34.5 with xenomai-2.5.6
>>
>> ==> Can't boot
>>
>> b) linux-2.6.35.9. with xenomai-2.5.6
>>
>> On booting, the message appears
>> "MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to IO-APIC",
>> But booted, and Laptop is hung on running latency.
>>
>> c) linux-2.6.37 with xenomai-2.5.6
>>
>> On booting, the message appears
>>
>> "MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to IO-APIC", But booted.
>>
>> But shows only one cpu core instead of 4 cores! (on cat /proc/cpuinfo)
>>
>> d) linux-2.6.35.9 with xenomai-2.6.0
>>
>> On booting, the message appears
>>
>> "MP-BIOS bug: 8254 timer not connected to IO-APIC", But booted.
>>
>> Laptop hung on running Xenomai test programs
>>
>> [giving "noapic" as kernel boot argument also did n't help]
>>
>> e) linux-2.6.38.8 with xenomai-2.6.1
>>
>> ==> Can't boot
>> (5) I also tried with other PCs (Core duo / Pentium / with FC8) and had
>> same experience.
>> Can somebody please give some suggestions?
>>
>
> I think that you have more a "compile my kernel" frustration that a
> xenomai frustration. And then I'm not sure it's the better place to
> post.
>
> Before playing with Xenomai be sure you can build a standard version
> of the kernel on your machine and boot with it. Then you will be able
> to patch your kernel with Xenomai "quite easily" in following
> intructions.
>
> There are many instructions for building your kernel on the web, for instance :
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
> I personnaly use the "Alternate Build Method: The Old-Fashioned Debian
> Way" (maybe because I'm on Debian) which is quite simple and efficient
>
> The steps are always :
> 1_ getting linux kernel sources
> 2_ configuring kernel
> 3_ compiling
> 4_ installing
>
> 1/
> The current common method is using git. I personnaly using ketchup :
> http://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/linux_kernel/kernel_configuration/apas04.html
> which is very clever to use (ketchup -r 3.X.X that's all). You should
> be able to get it from your packet manager.
>
> 2/
> The key to build successfully a kernel is to have a proper .config
> file (configuring kernel and modules). What often helps when starting
> from 0, is to get the .config file you are  currently using , which is
> in general in "/boot/config-[your kernel number]". You can get the
> current kernel number with "uname -a". Copy this file in your linux
> source tree

and rename it as ".config"


and then use "make menuconfig" or anything equivalent (you
> may forgot the "make oldconfig" for now. If you don't know what
> options mean you won't be able to pick anything different from default
> values anyway).
> You should manage the "Local Version" option which is under :
> "General Setup->Local version"
> to append a personnal version tag into your generated packet, so you
> may add a "fisrt-try" "second-try-nearly-working"
> "third-time-this-is-the-good-one"
>
>
>
> 3/ 4/ see documentation linked. If you have the buildchain installed
> (gcc, ...) it should not be a problem.
>
>
> when you manage to build and boot on you personnal recompiled kernel
> (choose a newer version from your current one for instance), then, and
> only then you will be able to try with xenomai, read and follow
> instructions and come back here to get support if necessary.
>
>
> P.S. : to xenomai community, is there a problem if I continue some
> support here, or should we go somewhere else more on topic ?
>
>
>> -Shamju Joseph
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xenomai mailing list
>> Xenomai@xenomai.org
>> http://www.xenomai.org/mailman/listinfo/xenomai

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Philippe Gerum]

On 11/30/2012 09:45 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:

> P.S. : to xenomai community, is there a problem if I continue some
> support here, or should we go somewhere else more on topic ?
> 

I agree this is not really a Xenomai issue, but explaining the general
logic to enable Xenomai in pre-canned distro environments can't be bad,
as long as we are not losing focus with generic linux details. At any
rate, you invested some time already to give meaningful hints, so I
don't see any reason to discourage you from helping people on this list.
Please go ahead.

-- 
Philippe.

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Gilles Chanteperdrix]

On 11/30/2012 09:45 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> P.S. : to xenomai community, is there a problem if I continue some
> support here, or should we go somewhere else more on topic ?

Absolutely no problem, this is a recurring problem, so, we can not
really ignore it. The thingx I would add is:
- if you have a very recent computer, you will have more trouble
installing really old kernels than install the latest revision, so, I
would advise to use the I-pipe patch for Linux 3.2 with xenomai 2.6.1
- we can give you write access to the wiki if you wish to write some
documents about this.

-- 
					    Gilles.

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Willy Lambert]

2012/11/30 Philippe Gerum <rpm@xenomai.org>:
> I agree this is not really a Xenomai issue, but explaining the general
> logic to enable Xenomai in pre-canned distro environments can't be bad,
> as long as we are not losing focus with generic linux details. At any
> rate, you invested some time already to give meaningful hints, so I
> don't see any reason to discourage you from

Great, btw I just discovered the new formatting of :
http://www.xenomai.org/documentation/xenomai-2.6/html/README.INSTALL/
which is really nice !  To be honest the old readme plain text format
was a bit discouraging.

Should you edit that reame 1/ introduction to clarify this "general
logic" that is a prerequisite to install xenomai is to be able to
compile a kernel first before sinking to xenomai ?
I admit that when you know details about xenomai, the readme is clearn
but when you are a complete newbie in kernel compilation, as I were 2
years ago, it is not so clear that kernel compil is a plain activity
to manage before doing anything with xenomai.

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Willy Lambert]

2012/11/30 Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org>:
> On 11/30/2012 09:45 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>> P.S. : to xenomai community, is there a problem if I continue some
>> support here, or should we go somewhere else more on topic ?
>
> Absolutely no problem, this is a recurring problem, so, we can not
> really ignore it. The thingx I would add is:
> - if you have a very recent computer, you will have more trouble
> installing really old kernels than install the latest revision, so, I
> would advise to use the I-pipe patch for Linux 3.2 with xenomai 2.6.1
> - we can give you write access to the wiki if you wish to write some
> documents about this.
>

Ok, let me know where I should write something.

I'll rewrite something like my first mail in the "old debian way"
(should be ok for debian and ubuntu) :
_ explaining the idea "first compile your vanilla kernel before
patching it, try boot, and add xenomai".
_ getting compile tools
_ getting linux source with ketchup (cause it's really no brain)
_ getting current config, configuring personnal version
_ compile command (producing .deb)
_ install command / remove
Keeping the aim to show a simple method without getting into details,
and providing some general linux doc to read.

I don't have time to update my process to "latest pratices", but at
least it a starting point.

> --
>                                             Gilles.

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Gilles Chanteperdrix]

On 11/30/2012 03:29 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> 2012/11/30 Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org>:
>> On 11/30/2012 09:45 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>>> P.S. : to xenomai community, is there a problem if I continue some
>>> support here, or should we go somewhere else more on topic ?
>>
>> Absolutely no problem, this is a recurring problem, so, we can not
>> really ignore it. The thingx I would add is:
>> - if you have a very recent computer, you will have more trouble
>> installing really old kernels than install the latest revision, so, I
>> would advise to use the I-pipe patch for Linux 3.2 with xenomai 2.6.1
>> - we can give you write access to the wiki if you wish to write some
>> documents about this.
>>
> 
> Ok, let me know where I should write something.
> 
> I'll rewrite something like my first mail in the "old debian way"
> (should be ok for debian and ubuntu) :
> _ explaining the idea "first compile your vanilla kernel before
> patching it, try boot, and add xenomai".
> _ getting compile tools
> _ getting linux source with ketchup (cause it's really no brain)
> _ getting current config, configuring personnal version
> _ compile command (producing .deb)
> _ install command / remove
> Keeping the aim to show a simple method without getting into details,
> and providing some general linux doc to read.
> 
> I don't have time to update my process to "latest pratices", but at
> least it a starting point.

Ok, I will create a login/password on the wiki.

However, for the particular case of Debian, starting with the I-pipe for
Linux 3.4, we can probably provide a precompiled kernel with a
debian-like configuration which will run on any platform.

-- 
					    Gilles.

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Paul Stelzig]

 
<snip>

>Ok, I will create a login/password on the wiki.

>However, for the particular case of Debian, starting with the I-pipe for Linux 3.4, we can 
>probably provide a precompiled kernel with a debian-like configuration which will run on any 
>platform.

I like the idea of a precompiled kernel, for my current real time project I decided to use the RTPreempt patch mostly because I could get a precompiled kernel.

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Willy Lambert]

2012/11/30 Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org>:
> On 11/30/2012 03:29 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>> 2012/11/30 Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org>:
>>> On 11/30/2012 09:45 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>>>> P.S. : to xenomai community, is there a problem if I continue some
>>>> support here, or should we go somewhere else more on topic ?
>>>
>>> Absolutely no problem, this is a recurring problem, so, we can not
>>> really ignore it. The thingx I would add is:
>>> - if you have a very recent computer, you will have more trouble
>>> installing really old kernels than install the latest revision, so, I
>>> would advise to use the I-pipe patch for Linux 3.2 with xenomai 2.6.1
>>> - we can give you write access to the wiki if you wish to write some
>>> documents about this.
>>>
>>
>> Ok, let me know where I should write something.
>>
>> I'll rewrite something like my first mail in the "old debian way"
>> (should be ok for debian and ubuntu) :
>> _ explaining the idea "first compile your vanilla kernel before
>> patching it, try boot, and add xenomai".
>> _ getting compile tools
>> _ getting linux source with ketchup (cause it's really no brain)
>> _ getting current config, configuring personnal version
>> _ compile command (producing .deb)
>> _ install command / remove
>> Keeping the aim to show a simple method without getting into details,
>> and providing some general linux doc to read.
>>
>> I don't have time to update my process to "latest pratices", but at
>> least it a starting point.
>
> Ok, I will create a login/password on the wiki.
>
> However, for the particular case of Debian, starting with the I-pipe for
> Linux 3.4, we can probably provide a precompiled kernel with a
> debian-like configuration which will run on any platform.
>
> --

Hi all,

back from holidays, so I have some time to write some documentation
about this. I suggest that I add a page linked from :
http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Howtos
That I'll call :
http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_kernel
I wonder if something should be added there :
http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Included_documentation_summary
The howto page is not linked. Maybe the "building kernel" should comes
first, at least the warning that "before doing a xenomai kernel you
have to have a kernel"

Do I need to update any "source" documentation ? If y please tell me
how (there is plain text, html, pdf,...)


>                                             Gilles.

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Gilles Chanteperdrix]

On 12/30/2012 12:47 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:

> 2012/11/30 Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org>:
>> On 11/30/2012 03:29 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>>> 2012/11/30 Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org>:
>>>> On 11/30/2012 09:45 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>>>>> P.S. : to xenomai community, is there a problem if I continue some
>>>>> support here, or should we go somewhere else more on topic ?
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely no problem, this is a recurring problem, so, we can not
>>>> really ignore it. The thingx I would add is:
>>>> - if you have a very recent computer, you will have more trouble
>>>> installing really old kernels than install the latest revision, so, I
>>>> would advise to use the I-pipe patch for Linux 3.2 with xenomai 2.6.1
>>>> - we can give you write access to the wiki if you wish to write some
>>>> documents about this.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, let me know where I should write something.
>>>
>>> I'll rewrite something like my first mail in the "old debian way"
>>> (should be ok for debian and ubuntu) :
>>> _ explaining the idea "first compile your vanilla kernel before
>>> patching it, try boot, and add xenomai".
>>> _ getting compile tools
>>> _ getting linux source with ketchup (cause it's really no brain)
>>> _ getting current config, configuring personnal version
>>> _ compile command (producing .deb)
>>> _ install command / remove
>>> Keeping the aim to show a simple method without getting into details,
>>> and providing some general linux doc to read.
>>>
>>> I don't have time to update my process to "latest pratices", but at
>>> least it a starting point.
>>
>> Ok, I will create a login/password on the wiki.
>>
>> However, for the particular case of Debian, starting with the I-pipe for
>> Linux 3.4, we can probably provide a precompiled kernel with a
>> debian-like configuration which will run on any platform.
>>
>> --
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> back from holidays, so I have some time to write some documentation
> about this. I suggest that I add a page linked from :
> http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Howtos
> That I'll call :
> http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_kernel
> I wonder if something should be added there :
> http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Included_documentation_summary
> The howto page is not linked. Maybe the "building kernel" should comes
> first, at least the warning that "before doing a xenomai kernel you
> have to have a kernel"
> 
> Do I need to update any "source" documentation ? If y please tell me
> how (there is plain text, html, pdf,...)


Hi Willy,

go ahead for the documentation. The page explaining how to build a
kernel should point to the page about configuring a kernel for x86
machines. Then the source documentation pointing to this patch should be
README.INSTALL, README.INSTALL sources are
doc/asciidoc/README.INSTALL.adoc in xenomai sources.

Regards.

-- 
                                                                Gilles.

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Willy Lambert]

2012/11/30 Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org>:
> On 11/30/2012 03:29 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>> 2012/11/30 Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org>:
>>> On 11/30/2012 09:45 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>>>> P.S. : to xenomai community, is there a problem if I continue some
>>>> support here, or should we go somewhere else more on topic ?
>>>
>>> Absolutely no problem, this is a recurring problem, so, we can not
>>> really ignore it. The thingx I would add is:
>>> - if you have a very recent computer, you will have more trouble
>>> installing really old kernels than install the latest revision, so, I
>>> would advise to use the I-pipe patch for Linux 3.2 with xenomai 2.6.1
>>> - we can give you write access to the wiki if you wish to write some
>>> documents about this.
>>>
>>
>> Ok, let me know where I should write something.
>>
>> I'll rewrite something like my first mail in the "old debian way"
>> (should be ok for debian and ubuntu) :
>> _ explaining the idea "first compile your vanilla kernel before
>> patching it, try boot, and add xenomai".
>> _ getting compile tools
>> _ getting linux source with ketchup (cause it's really no brain)
>> _ getting current config, configuring personnal version
>> _ compile command (producing .deb)
>> _ install command / remove
>> Keeping the aim to show a simple method without getting into details,
>> and providing some general linux doc to read.
>>
>> I don't have time to update my process to "latest pratices", but at
>> least it a starting point.
>
> Ok, I will create a login/password on the wiki.
>
> However, for the particular case of Debian, starting with the I-pipe for
> Linux 3.4, we can probably provide a precompiled kernel with a
> debian-like configuration which will run on any platform.
>
> --
>                                             Gilles.

Here is a first try.
http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_kernel
 Don't hesitate to comment/correct this. I will add some links later to :
_ a good complete kernel building guide (if you have some please share)
_ x86 configure hints wiki page.

The end is a bit specific to Debian/Ubuntu distros. Is it a problem ?
Should I rework this ?

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[John Morris]

Hi Willy,

On 01/21/2013 06:43 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> Here is a first try.
> http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_kernel
>  Don't hesitate to comment/correct this. I will add some links later to :
> _ a good complete kernel building guide (if you have some please share)
> _ x86 configure hints wiki page.
> 
> The end is a bit specific to Debian/Ubuntu distros. Is it a problem ?
> Should I rework this ?

Nice write-up.  I've done the same thing on the LinuxCNC website.  Feel
free to comment, fix, borrow, ignore....

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XenomaiKernel

	John

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Willy Lambert]

2013/1/22 John Morris <john@zultron.com>:
> Hi Willy,
>
> On 01/21/2013 06:43 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>> Here is a first try.
>> http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_kernel
>>  Don't hesitate to comment/correct this. I will add some links later to :
>> _ a good complete kernel building guide (if you have some please share)
>> _ x86 configure hints wiki page.
>>
>> The end is a bit specific to Debian/Ubuntu distros. Is it a problem ?
>> Should I rework this ?
>
> Nice write-up.  I've done the same thing on the LinuxCNC website.  Feel
> free to comment, fix, borrow, ignore....
>
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XenomaiKernel
>
>         John
>

Arg, a pity I know this just after I write the xenomai wiki :D But
anyway thanks for pointing

I think a part of this stuff has to come to the xenomai wiki because
the question rise from time to time. We need 2 things :
_ something like my page, about general thinking,  maybe without the
compilation details (which is not depending on versions)
_ intructions to build everything with latests versions (which is more
like your page), which we have to maintain... (it alredy exists
somewhere on the wiki, but I think is is not about kernel compilation)

One point is that I'm not taking care about cross compiling the kernel...

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Willy Lambert]

2013/1/22 Willy Lambert <lambert.willy@gmail.com>:
> 2013/1/22 John Morris <john@zultron.com>:
>> Hi Willy,
>>
>> On 01/21/2013 06:43 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>>> Here is a first try.
>>> http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_kernel
>>>  Don't hesitate to comment/correct this. I will add some links later to :
>>> _ a good complete kernel building guide (if you have some please share)
>>> _ x86 configure hints wiki page.
>>>
>>> The end is a bit specific to Debian/Ubuntu distros. Is it a problem ?
>>> Should I rework this ?
>>
>> Nice write-up.  I've done the same thing on the LinuxCNC website.  Feel
>> free to comment, fix, borrow, ignore....
>>
>> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XenomaiKernel
>>
>>         John
>>
>
> Arg, a pity I know this just after I write the xenomai wiki :D But
> anyway thanks for pointing
>
> I think a part of this stuff has to come to the xenomai wiki because
> the question rise from time to time. We need 2 things :
> _ something like my page, about general thinking,  maybe without the
> compilation details (which is not depending on versions)
> _ intructions to build everything with latests versions (which is more
> like your page), which we have to maintain... (it alredy exists
> somewhere on the wiki, but I think is is not about kernel compilation)
>
> One point is that I'm not taking care about cross compiling the kernel...


Btw I personnaly don't use the --revision option to manage different
tries because it is not completely visible when the packaged is
installed.

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Gilles Chanteperdrix]

On 01/22/2013 08:34 AM, John Morris wrote:

> Hi Willy,
> 
> On 01/21/2013 06:43 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>> Here is a first try.
>> http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_kernel
>>  Don't hesitate to comment/correct this. I will add some links later to :
>> _ a good complete kernel building guide (if you have some please share)
>> _ x86 configure hints wiki page.
>>
>> The end is a bit specific to Debian/Ubuntu distros. Is it a problem ?
>> Should I rework this ?
> 
> Nice write-up.  I've done the same thing on the LinuxCNC website.  Feel
> free to comment, fix, borrow, ignore....
> 
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XenomaiKernel


Just a note about running the dohell script:
dohell -m /tmp 100 is a light load
If you can not run ltp (though it probably exists as a package for all
distributions), you should at least use the -b argument to generate load
with hackbench.

-- 
                                                                Gilles.

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[John Morris]

On 01/22/2013 02:15 PM, Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote:
> On 01/22/2013 08:34 AM, John Morris wrote:
> 
>> Hi Willy,
>>
>> On 01/21/2013 06:43 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>>> Here is a first try.
>>> http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_kernel
>>>  Don't hesitate to comment/correct this. I will add some links later to :
>>> _ a good complete kernel building guide (if you have some please share)
>>> _ x86 configure hints wiki page.
>>>
>>> The end is a bit specific to Debian/Ubuntu distros. Is it a problem ?
>>> Should I rework this ?
>>
>> Nice write-up.  I've done the same thing on the LinuxCNC website.  Feel
>> free to comment, fix, borrow, ignore....
>>
>> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XenomaiKernel
> 
> 
> Just a note about running the dohell script:
> dohell -m /tmp 100 is a light load
> If you can not run ltp (though it probably exists as a package for all
> distributions), you should at least use the -b argument to generate load
> with hackbench.
> 

Thanks, documentation updated for Deb-like distros.

ltp seems not to be available for EL6, unfortunately.  Does it make
sense to package hackbench together with Xenomai in the RPM packages?

	John

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[John Morris]

On 01/22/2013 02:31 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> 2013/1/22 Willy Lambert <lambert.willy@gmail.com>:
>> 2013/1/22 John Morris <john@zultron.com>:
>>> Hi Willy,
>>>
>>> On 01/21/2013 06:43 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>>>> Here is a first try.
>>>> http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_kernel
>>>>  Don't hesitate to comment/correct this. I will add some links later to :
>>>> _ a good complete kernel building guide (if you have some please share)
>>>> _ x86 configure hints wiki page.
>>>>
>>>> The end is a bit specific to Debian/Ubuntu distros. Is it a problem ?
>>>> Should I rework this ?
>>>
>>> Nice write-up.  I've done the same thing on the LinuxCNC website.  Feel
>>> free to comment, fix, borrow, ignore....
>>>
>>> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XenomaiKernel
>>>
>>>         John
>>>
>>
>> Arg, a pity I know this just after I write the xenomai wiki :D But
>> anyway thanks for pointing
>>
>> I think a part of this stuff has to come to the xenomai wiki because
>> the question rise from time to time. We need 2 things :
>> _ something like my page, about general thinking,  maybe without the
>> compilation details (which is not depending on versions)
>> _ intructions to build everything with latests versions (which is more
>> like your page), which we have to maintain... (it alredy exists
>> somewhere on the wiki, but I think is is not about kernel compilation)

Good point, that's an important distinction I hadn't thought of:
general thinking vs. compilation recipe.

The Xenomai wiki does have something like that recipe for both xenomai
and kernel packages:

http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_Debian_packages

>> One point is that I'm not taking care about cross compiling the kernel...

I'd like to know more about that, too, since LinuxCNC is preparing to
support the BeagleBone (ARM) and will need kernel packages.

> Btw I personnaly don't use the --revision option to manage different
> tries because it is not completely visible when the packaged is
> installed.

There are a number of shortcomings with the instructions on my wiki
page, but as the page states, it is meant for one-off builds, and not
meant for packages to be widely distributed.  What do you do instead?  I
actually have never used Debian before, and have no idea what common
practice is.

I did spend some time preparing kernel packages that I hope will be
suitable for distribution some day.  The packages are built with
dpkg-buildpackage, not make-kpkg, and use the revision from
debian/changelog.  There is a separate wiki page here that discusses
more 'general thinking' subjects:

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XenomaiKernelPackages

	John

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Willy Lambert]

2013/1/28 John Morris <john@zultron.com>:
> On 01/22/2013 02:31 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>> 2013/1/22 Willy Lambert <lambert.willy@gmail.com>:
>>> 2013/1/22 John Morris <john@zultron.com>:
>>>> Hi Willy,
>>>>
>>>> On 01/21/2013 06:43 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>>>>> Here is a first try.
>>>>> http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_kernel
>>>>>  Don't hesitate to comment/correct this. I will add some links later to :
>>>>> _ a good complete kernel building guide (if you have some please share)
>>>>> _ x86 configure hints wiki page.
>>>>>
>>>>> The end is a bit specific to Debian/Ubuntu distros. Is it a problem ?
>>>>> Should I rework this ?
>>>>
>>>> Nice write-up.  I've done the same thing on the LinuxCNC website.  Feel
>>>> free to comment, fix, borrow, ignore....
>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XenomaiKernel
>>>>
>>>>         John
>>>>
>>>
>>> Arg, a pity I know this just after I write the xenomai wiki :D But
>>> anyway thanks for pointing
>>>
>>> I think a part of this stuff has to come to the xenomai wiki because
>>> the question rise from time to time. We need 2 things :
>>> _ something like my page, about general thinking,  maybe without the
>>> compilation details (which is not depending on versions)
>>> _ intructions to build everything with latests versions (which is more
>>> like your page), which we have to maintain... (it alredy exists
>>> somewhere on the wiki, but I think is is not about kernel compilation)
>
> Good point, that's an important distinction I hadn't thought of:
> general thinking vs. compilation recipe.
>
> The Xenomai wiki does have something like that recipe for both xenomai
> and kernel packages:
>
> http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_Debian_packages
>
>>> One point is that I'm not taking care about cross compiling the kernel...
>
> I'd like to know more about that, too, since LinuxCNC is preparing to
> support the BeagleBone (ARM) and will need kernel packages.
>

I can't help on this, since I use x86 to avoid such complications (I
started lunux and so on from zero not so long ago, so one point after
the other ^^). But I know people using scratchbox2 to help to do this
transparently :
http://forum.wdlxtv.com/viewtopic.php?f=&t=3108

Else it would be compilation configuration with some "CC=" env
variables to define or some "./configure -arch=XXX" magics to do.
Anyway the __main__ thing is to make people aware that they have to
know how to do it on a vanilla kernel __before__ speaking about
xenomai. Then they will know how to customize default commands.

>> Btw I personnaly don't use the --revision option to manage different
>> tries because it is not completely visible when the packaged is
>> installed
>
> There are a number of shortcomings with the instructions on my wiki
> page, but as the page states, it is meant for one-off builds, and not
> meant for packages to be widely distributed.  What do you do instead?  I
> actually have never used Debian before, and have no idea what common
> practice is.

It's not a problem of distributing your kernel. Is a matter of
"you-will-have-to-do-several-tries-before-success-in-dev-phasis". So
you may have several versions partially working on different part. And
during the time you try to merge all this in your brand new ready to
use package, you will be happy to be abble to boot independantly from
different versions without loosing past semi-working versions so you
can go back. It goes beyond version control system because it shows
version in your binaries (with grub2 you will automatically have a
correctly named entry in your boot menu) and have several /lib/modules
dirs for each kernel versions.

Using only the revision part will creates the same entry in the boot
menu, be installed in place of last version (so you have to remove old
package and put the new one), have no way to determine where your
.config comes out of your VSC ...

I use :
General Setup -> Local version - append to kernel release (CONFIG_LOCALVERSION)
with something like :
-${my_institution}-${majorversion}.${dev version}
which is -ard-10.9 currently/

I change this before modifying anything in my .config for a new
package. I do 5 to 50 tries in dev phasis before launching a "public"
major version.

>
> I did spend some time preparing kernel packages that I hope will be
> suitable for distribution some day.  The packages are built with
> dpkg-buildpackage, not make-kpkg, and use the revision from
> debian/changelog.

I don't pretend to know the best tools to do the stuff. I have found a
working way so I keep going with it. If you find better/more up to
date ways, go with it.

> There is a separate wiki page here that discusses
> more 'general thinking' subjects:
>
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XenomaiKernelPackages
>
>         John

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[John Morris]

On 01/28/2013 03:11 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> 2013/1/28 John Morris <john@zultron.com>:
>> On 01/22/2013 02:31 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>>> Btw I personnaly don't use the --revision option to manage different
>>> tries because it is not completely visible when the packaged is
>>> installed
>>
>> There are a number of shortcomings with the instructions on my wiki
>> page, but as the page states, it is meant for one-off builds, and not
>> meant for packages to be widely distributed.  What do you do instead?  I
>> actually have never used Debian before, and have no idea what common
>> practice is.
> 
> It's not a problem of distributing your kernel. Is a matter of
> "you-will-have-to-do-several-tries-before-success-in-dev-phasis". So
> you may have several versions partially working on different part. And
> during the time you try to merge all this in your brand new ready to
> use package, you will be happy to be abble to boot independantly from
> different versions without loosing past semi-working versions so you
> can go back. It goes beyond version control system because it shows
> version in your binaries (with grub2 you will automatically have a
> correctly named entry in your boot menu) and have several /lib/modules
> dirs for each kernel versions.
> 
> Using only the revision part will creates the same entry in the boot
> menu, be installed in place of last version (so you have to remove old
> package and put the new one), have no way to determine where your
> .config comes out of your VSC ...
> 
> I use :
> General Setup -> Local version - append to kernel release (CONFIG_LOCALVERSION)
> with something like :
> -${my_institution}-${majorversion}.${dev version}
> which is -ard-10.9 currently/
> 
> I change this before modifying anything in my .config for a new
> package. I do 5 to 50 tries in dev phasis before launching a "public"
> major version.

I see what you mean.  Yes, the linuxcnc.org wiki howto does also use
--append-to-version, but only to distinguish package flavors.  This
appends extra identifying information to the package name (which
incorporates the kernel version, evidently common practice for Ubuntu
kernel packages) instead of to the package version, and this extra
information can be easily seen on the grub boot menu and other places.

--append-to-version might also be a handy way to keep track of builds
more easily during development, yes.  Package development workflow is
beyond the scope of my simple howto, though.

	John

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Gilles Chanteperdrix]

On 01/22/2013 01:43 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> 2012/11/30 Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org>:
>> On 11/30/2012 03:29 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>>> 2012/11/30 Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org>:
>>>> On 11/30/2012 09:45 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
>>>>> P.S. : to xenomai community, is there a problem if I continue some
>>>>> support here, or should we go somewhere else more on topic ?
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely no problem, this is a recurring problem, so, we can not
>>>> really ignore it. The thingx I would add is:
>>>> - if you have a very recent computer, you will have more trouble
>>>> installing really old kernels than install the latest revision, so, I
>>>> would advise to use the I-pipe patch for Linux 3.2 with xenomai 2.6.1
>>>> - we can give you write access to the wiki if you wish to write some
>>>> documents about this.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, let me know where I should write something.
>>>
>>> I'll rewrite something like my first mail in the "old debian way"
>>> (should be ok for debian and ubuntu) :
>>> _ explaining the idea "first compile your vanilla kernel before
>>> patching it, try boot, and add xenomai".
>>> _ getting compile tools
>>> _ getting linux source with ketchup (cause it's really no brain)
>>> _ getting current config, configuring personnal version
>>> _ compile command (producing .deb)
>>> _ install command / remove
>>> Keeping the aim to show a simple method without getting into details,
>>> and providing some general linux doc to read.
>>>
>>> I don't have time to update my process to "latest pratices", but at
>>> least it a starting point.
>>
>> Ok, I will create a login/password on the wiki.
>>
>> However, for the particular case of Debian, starting with the I-pipe for
>> Linux 3.4, we can probably provide a precompiled kernel with a
>> debian-like configuration which will run on any platform.
>>
>> --
>>                                             Gilles.
> 
> Here is a first try.
> http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_kernel
>  Don't hesitate to comment/correct this. I will add some links later to :
> _ a good complete kernel building guide (if you have some please share)
> _ x86 configure hints wiki page.
> 
> The end is a bit specific to Debian/Ubuntu distros. Is it a problem ?
> Should I rework this ?
> 

Hi Willy,

sorry for answering safter uch a long time, the mail got buried and
forgotten. The page is nice, I am going to put a link to it at least in
the README.INSTALL guide, I guess we should put some links to it in the
wiki too. However, I would like to advise people to first start with a
prebuilt kernel, such as the Debian kernels available on xenomai servers
or made available by the LinuxCNC project:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XenomaiKernelPackages

before they start trying building their own kernel and come to the list
asking the usual questions.

-- 
                                                                Gilles.

Re: [Xenomai] Frustrating experience with Xenomai

[Willy Lambert]

2013/8/20 Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org>

> On 01/22/2013 01:43 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> > 2012/11/30 Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org>:
> >> On 11/30/2012 03:29 PM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> >>> 2012/11/30 Gilles Chanteperdrix <gilles.chanteperdrix@xenomai.org>:
> >>>> On 11/30/2012 09:45 AM, Willy Lambert wrote:
> >>>>> P.S. : to xenomai community, is there a problem if I continue some
> >>>>> support here, or should we go somewhere else more on topic ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Absolutely no problem, this is a recurring problem, so, we can not
> >>>> really ignore it. The thingx I would add is:
> >>>> - if you have a very recent computer, you will have more trouble
> >>>> installing really old kernels than install the latest revision, so, I
> >>>> would advise to use the I-pipe patch for Linux 3.2 with xenomai 2.6.1
> >>>> - we can give you write access to the wiki if you wish to write some
> >>>> documents about this.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Ok, let me know where I should write something.
> >>>
> >>> I'll rewrite something like my first mail in the "old debian way"
> >>> (should be ok for debian and ubuntu) :
> >>> _ explaining the idea "first compile your vanilla kernel before
> >>> patching it, try boot, and add xenomai".
> >>> _ getting compile tools
> >>> _ getting linux source with ketchup (cause it's really no brain)
> >>> _ getting current config, configuring personnal version
> >>> _ compile command (producing .deb)
> >>> _ install command / remove
> >>> Keeping the aim to show a simple method without getting into details,
> >>> and providing some general linux doc to read.
> >>>
> >>> I don't have time to update my process to "latest pratices", but at
> >>> least it a starting point.
> >>
> >> Ok, I will create a login/password on the wiki.
> >>
> >> However, for the particular case of Debian, starting with the I-pipe for
> >> Linux 3.4, we can probably provide a precompiled kernel with a
> >> debian-like configuration which will run on any platform.
> >>
> >> --
> >>                                             Gilles.
> >
> > Here is a first try.
> > http://www.xenomai.org/index.php/Building_kernel
> >  Don't hesitate to comment/correct this. I will add some links later to :
> > _ a good complete kernel building guide (if you have some please share)
> > _ x86 configure hints wiki page.
> >
> > The end is a bit specific to Debian/Ubuntu distros. Is it a problem ?
> > Should I rework this ?
> >
>
> Hi Willy,
>
> sorry for answering safter uch a long time, the mail got buried and
> forgotten. The page is nice, I am going to put a link to it at least in
> the README.INSTALL guide, I guess we should put some links to it in the
> wiki too. However, I would like to advise people to first start with a
> prebuilt kernel, such as the Debian kernels available on xenomai servers
> or made available by the LinuxCNC project:
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?XenomaiKernelPackages
>
> before they start trying building their own kernel and come to the list
> asking the usual questions.
>
> --
>                                                                 Gilles.
>

Hi,

no problem, it's a starting point that people can evolves.  I'm happy the
page pleased you and to give back my time to xenomai ^^.