From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C769C433F5 for ; Mon, 23 May 2022 17:22:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68A1210F5BF; Mon, 23 May 2022 17:22:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oo1-xc36.google.com (mail-oo1-xc36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c36]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2909210F5F6 for ; Mon, 23 May 2022 17:22:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oo1-xc36.google.com with SMTP id s32-20020a4a96a3000000b0040e504332adso2198084ooi.10 for ; Mon, 23 May 2022 10:22:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Jyra7hAVNbxUBiQeSeny3J1iXMJn4cpxNxDSkBqSwwc=; b=VHi49t2yJ8XZt3l4544whGRcgSG9/chQbJzw/Wb+5ioQ+fsmX3cRpBx6OQxRGk/Ap+ wPsNDHmdeGfiSYG4yhVoaP8kdesRh7Z3VHHegl8q1JSEQj0W1/AxEFXVJe2KlCYoWN13 25ePZeus2t/0M9W2csYI07b8jnWviHlnRWgHzXP6/J5XohAxHvEmdaxSNcoc7lfQnDsr 8T4k7IU1HI2NNx9aZZvGD+J0Egdg5hSd6Pb1Fq4vl+wFkF6Jrauch0gNhrXAGtT7m/+u B9nF1ndDN2ey4SNsqLm4DJPsUNy/pqBr0mrYuds8wBJOa6h5x0I5D1XD3LaQVxke7Z+C zY6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Jyra7hAVNbxUBiQeSeny3J1iXMJn4cpxNxDSkBqSwwc=; b=Te3BKOCWvDwP3wRz4v6lUUlSWz+BoclinmUF1rz1tkWk+nRS3OvtwTy6lY9e4453ug Es2lHSk35zj34TyzhorkKVYgOH6xjWu6KwBMIxOYg3bajR1DiHk65Kbm+WBuz7jdFfkT zQ9Jzw7b4Y2rBG59FLZdizbCJHJgXdS11fpi/O2nSE6oKHBQRC/iaz5QHtyOpGhVRxj2 iMWykCS7yJZBoBLVn0OQ6+lgcp3FrK71uXy4QSjXLeYvvo1M3SOg96vB0KgD4ycHxG4r Wi2ihkeiK8HAd1g57/jcy0duq1vRYmT7xSD0cCs+livLbheMupQTEXrROXVOesmKcN+K IzNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531mJWj+Tf6HrT5E43llAcp91B0R51xTnXq03365nMiiRdbB2Tvd IU5JL4+rLO6uxgq5NXB8IHcDVBfwfE7CaE4bdl+TXg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzHh/9qmSDYM9XAg5E0fgrqqHi95efq7cL0KZAg+w4CMPYF3qt7r4C+naxClkSjib2q5Q/h0H1EBI7lu9EI0tU= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:c90a:0:b0:40e:95bf:268d with SMTP id v10-20020a4ac90a000000b0040e95bf268dmr1156358ooq.85.1653326540061; Mon, 23 May 2022 10:22:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20220427200314.276673-1-mlevitsk@redhat.com> <20220427200314.276673-3-mlevitsk@redhat.com> <65991ac329a32cf4128400b643d5b5ccf3918cfe.camel@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <65991ac329a32cf4128400b643d5b5ccf3918cfe.camel@redhat.com> From: Jim Mattson Date: Mon, 23 May 2022 10:22:09 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 02/19] KVM: x86: inhibit APICv/AVIC when the guest and/or host changes apic id/base from the defaults. To: Maxim Levitsky Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Direct Rendering Infrastructure - Development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Wanpeng Li , kvm@vger.kernel.org, David Airlie , Dave Hansen , dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "H. Peter Anvin" , Brijesh Singh , Joerg Roedel , x86@kernel.org, Ingo Molnar , Zhi Wang , Tom Lendacky , intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, Borislav Petkov , Rodrigo Vivi , Thomas Gleixner , intel-gvt-dev@lists.freedesktop.org, Tvrtko Ursulin , Sean Christopherson , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Paolo Bonzini , Vitaly Kuznetsov Errors-To: dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "dri-devel" On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 11:50 PM Maxim Levitsky wrote: > > On Sun, 2022-05-22 at 07:47 -0700, Jim Mattson wrote: > > On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 2:03 AM Maxim Levitsky wrote: > > > On Thu, 2022-05-19 at 16:06 +0000, Sean Christopherson wrote: > > > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022, Maxim Levitsky wrote: > > > > > Neither of these settings should be changed by the guest and it is > > > > > a burden to support it in the acceleration code, so just inhibit > > > > > it instead. > > > > > > > > > > Also add a boolean 'apic_id_changed' to indicate if apic id ever changed. > > > > > > > > > > Signed-off-by: Maxim Levitsky > > > > > --- > > > > > + return; > > > > > + > > > > > + pr_warn_once("APIC ID change is unsupported by KVM"); > > > > > > > > It's supported (modulo x2APIC shenanigans), otherwise KVM wouldn't need to disable > > > > APICv. > > > > > > Here, as I said, it would be nice to see that warning if someone complains. > > > Fact is that AVIC code was totally broken in this regard, and there are probably more, > > > so it would be nice to see if anybody complains. > > > > > > If you insist, I'll remove this warning. > > > > This may be fine for a hobbyist, but it's a terrible API in an > > enterprise environment. To be honest, I have no way of propagating > > this warning from /var/log/messages on a particular host to a > > potentially impacted customer. Worse, if they're not the first > > impacted customer since the last host reboot, there's no warning to > > propagate. I suppose I could just tell every later customer, "Your VM > > was scheduled to run on a host that previously reported, 'APIC ID > > change is unsupported by KVM.' If you notice any unusual behavior, > > that might be the reason for it," but that isn't going to inspire > > confidence. I could schedule a drain and reboot of the host, but that > > defeats the whole point of the "_once" suffix. > > Mostly agree, and I read alrady few discussions about exactly this, > those warnings are mostly useless, but they are used in the > cases where we don't have the courage to just exit with KVM_EXIT_INTERNAL_ERROR. > > I do not thing though that the warning is completely useless, > as we often have the kernel log of the target machine when things go wrong, > so *we* can notice it. > In other words a kernel warning is mostly useless but better that nothing. I don't know how this works for you, but *we* are rarely involved when things go wrong. :-( > About KVM_EXIT_WARNING, this is IMHO a very good idea, probably combined > with some form of taint flag, which could be read by qemu and then shown > over hmp/qmp interfaces. > > Best regards, > Maxim levitsky > > > > > > I know that there's a long history of doing this in KVM, but I'd like > > to ask that we: > > a) stop piling on > > b) start fixing the existing uses > > > > If KVM cannot emulate a perfectly valid operation, an exit to > > userspace with KVM_EXIT_INTERNAL_ERROR is warranted. Perhaps for > > operations that we suspect KVM might get wrong, we should have a new > > userspace exit: KVM_EXIT_WARNING? > > > > I'm not saying that you should remove the warning. I'm just asking > > that it be augmented with a direct signal to userspace that KVM may no > > longer be reliable. > > > > From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0305C433EF for ; Mon, 23 May 2022 17:49:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S242232AbiEWRtZ (ORCPT ); Mon, 23 May 2022 13:49:25 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:43900 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S241890AbiEWR1T (ORCPT ); Mon, 23 May 2022 13:27:19 -0400 Received: from mail-oo1-xc33.google.com (mail-oo1-xc33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c33]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DC897628A for ; Mon, 23 May 2022 10:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oo1-xc33.google.com with SMTP id j25-20020a4ad199000000b0040e50cc687cso2179260oor.9 for ; Mon, 23 May 2022 10:22:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Jyra7hAVNbxUBiQeSeny3J1iXMJn4cpxNxDSkBqSwwc=; b=VHi49t2yJ8XZt3l4544whGRcgSG9/chQbJzw/Wb+5ioQ+fsmX3cRpBx6OQxRGk/Ap+ wPsNDHmdeGfiSYG4yhVoaP8kdesRh7Z3VHHegl8q1JSEQj0W1/AxEFXVJe2KlCYoWN13 25ePZeus2t/0M9W2csYI07b8jnWviHlnRWgHzXP6/J5XohAxHvEmdaxSNcoc7lfQnDsr 8T4k7IU1HI2NNx9aZZvGD+J0Egdg5hSd6Pb1Fq4vl+wFkF6Jrauch0gNhrXAGtT7m/+u B9nF1ndDN2ey4SNsqLm4DJPsUNy/pqBr0mrYuds8wBJOa6h5x0I5D1XD3LaQVxke7Z+C zY6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Jyra7hAVNbxUBiQeSeny3J1iXMJn4cpxNxDSkBqSwwc=; b=g2frVU4Gv8SMpYteB9x1jUz14j6SYL0ibzwbR1yINR7tsQrqwmyNk/kU7FNKHG2BiQ N5VYkdrdvLuGiOM4Bm6YgkVqVd8mcLOoYrotDPzJ2u0ygINsVSlZdXkwYxylachgE735 dmZpA5/fj/irQ+RS4C1wgpiYXc+b1tubpgtlJLSMgQ8DePYOlYEbHJ+yGqU50L9lkePN 30AMSUkZpI6o5XMoXNmDmi59rtfjVcsdWHH0P6n2dz/t/q1zPEzYnLlkn+9NkZqBxCHR E5gvpkLzU8Rp2bdSaYPUWrbCRn5ZT54N5P1kA/GDHB3cKebu5T/Ytoyx4WCHjMeR+4CJ 5efw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530JCcZXG8jcH8PglrQXVSBN/O/IcVTj3Oen/DNagpmniVQYBsrY +nLDZw+psq/cRjDwxj1fspYexhTQC/bd79ItKN3vUQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzHh/9qmSDYM9XAg5E0fgrqqHi95efq7cL0KZAg+w4CMPYF3qt7r4C+naxClkSjib2q5Q/h0H1EBI7lu9EI0tU= X-Received: by 2002:a4a:c90a:0:b0:40e:95bf:268d with SMTP id v10-20020a4ac90a000000b0040e95bf268dmr1156358ooq.85.1653326540061; Mon, 23 May 2022 10:22:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20220427200314.276673-1-mlevitsk@redhat.com> <20220427200314.276673-3-mlevitsk@redhat.com> <65991ac329a32cf4128400b643d5b5ccf3918cfe.camel@redhat.com> In-Reply-To: <65991ac329a32cf4128400b643d5b5ccf3918cfe.camel@redhat.com> From: Jim Mattson Date: Mon, 23 May 2022 10:22:09 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v3 02/19] KVM: x86: inhibit APICv/AVIC when the guest and/or host changes apic id/base from the defaults. To: Maxim Levitsky Cc: Sean Christopherson , kvm@vger.kernel.org, Wanpeng Li , Vitaly Kuznetsov , Jani Nikula , Paolo Bonzini , Tvrtko Ursulin , Rodrigo Vivi , Zhenyu Wang , Joonas Lahtinen , Tom Lendacky , Ingo Molnar , David Airlie , Thomas Gleixner , Dave Hansen , x86@kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, Daniel Vetter , Borislav Petkov , Joerg Roedel , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Zhi Wang , Brijesh Singh , "H. Peter Anvin" , intel-gvt-dev@lists.freedesktop.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 11:50 PM Maxim Levitsky wrote: > > On Sun, 2022-05-22 at 07:47 -0700, Jim Mattson wrote: > > On Sun, May 22, 2022 at 2:03 AM Maxim Levitsky wrote: > > > On Thu, 2022-05-19 at 16:06 +0000, Sean Christopherson wrote: > > > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022, Maxim Levitsky wrote: > > > > > Neither of these settings should be changed by the guest and it is > > > > > a burden to support it in the acceleration code, so just inhibit > > > > > it instead. > > > > > > > > > > Also add a boolean 'apic_id_changed' to indicate if apic id ever changed. > > > > > > > > > > Signed-off-by: Maxim Levitsky > > > > > --- > > > > > + return; > > > > > + > > > > > + pr_warn_once("APIC ID change is unsupported by KVM"); > > > > > > > > It's supported (modulo x2APIC shenanigans), otherwise KVM wouldn't need to disable > > > > APICv. > > > > > > Here, as I said, it would be nice to see that warning if someone complains. > > > Fact is that AVIC code was totally broken in this regard, and there are probably more, > > > so it would be nice to see if anybody complains. > > > > > > If you insist, I'll remove this warning. > > > > This may be fine for a hobbyist, but it's a terrible API in an > > enterprise environment. To be honest, I have no way of propagating > > this warning from /var/log/messages on a particular host to a > > potentially impacted customer. Worse, if they're not the first > > impacted customer since the last host reboot, there's no warning to > > propagate. I suppose I could just tell every later customer, "Your VM > > was scheduled to run on a host that previously reported, 'APIC ID > > change is unsupported by KVM.' If you notice any unusual behavior, > > that might be the reason for it," but that isn't going to inspire > > confidence. I could schedule a drain and reboot of the host, but that > > defeats the whole point of the "_once" suffix. > > Mostly agree, and I read alrady few discussions about exactly this, > those warnings are mostly useless, but they are used in the > cases where we don't have the courage to just exit with KVM_EXIT_INTERNAL_ERROR. > > I do not thing though that the warning is completely useless, > as we often have the kernel log of the target machine when things go wrong, > so *we* can notice it. > In other words a kernel warning is mostly useless but better that nothing. I don't know how this works for you, but *we* are rarely involved when things go wrong. :-( > About KVM_EXIT_WARNING, this is IMHO a very good idea, probably combined > with some form of taint flag, which could be read by qemu and then shown > over hmp/qmp interfaces. > > Best regards, > Maxim levitsky > > > > > > I know that there's a long history of doing this in KVM, but I'd like > > to ask that we: > > a) stop piling on > > b) start fixing the existing uses > > > > If KVM cannot emulate a perfectly valid operation, an exit to > > userspace with KVM_EXIT_INTERNAL_ERROR is warranted. Perhaps for > > operations that we suspect KVM might get wrong, we should have a new > > userspace exit: KVM_EXIT_WARNING? > > > > I'm not saying that you should remove the warning. I'm just asking > > that it be augmented with a direct signal to userspace that KVM may no > > longer be reliable. > > > >