From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.1 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88BCEC433E0 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 14:20:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64630206C3 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 14:20:15 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="mTcI9lNn" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1728788AbgHKOUO (ORCPT ); Tue, 11 Aug 2020 10:20:14 -0400 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:49334 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728516AbgHKOUN (ORCPT ); Tue, 11 Aug 2020 10:20:13 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x644.google.com (mail-ej1-x644.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::644]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E089DC06174A for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 07:20:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x644.google.com with SMTP id t10so8923716ejs.8 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 07:20:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VtVNUXL/pcdG1uzLUlw0dL+8bXGpofZHcxiTfjeo5mY=; b=mTcI9lNn7p4ScJNSgzMtlrYCH/QfMpo6KStZwWtrFavM2PdimJaoRX93OPFK1vDG1H WUIet6D6Bt9fzbIr1t3J5qgGEMGMywZQwsD01mQ2HRCvFFBrtJbf70V3HvGp6ja+KSoS MUJldwWFBHIThsEakVZsLP0wDVXbVIyXnL/cHyLhXtT+vcsImathZ0/E9JoReKU+ys1q 9FgGciEB79zHVeo8kWYiwLLNSohRlu6G2ckqwnv1WdORZ60PAfXLm6+F58tjtpD2PLrR 5WK5nDzV0CT1HFilcSV2za5+myvbqmlX5ED3ooQEJPNNtOBXtr3UxADboS7oE1nMeBUw hBIw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VtVNUXL/pcdG1uzLUlw0dL+8bXGpofZHcxiTfjeo5mY=; b=TZS42YRov7j6sQvnv3A8zrllz5KM+a8t+vjkML9nOQLoaj1bWrg+dFTqCulcCGGM9f l37nDzTmXg/D3oIvBDw+ioFSPwhFCivbZHuVAzxaLQSXM9KHNKoSEpm7L3u2ydsZRfw2 kBXgBN/8lm8KmKmbvIx/MgOQQ9SNEdbGIkdDcXuqGgM50P5VPKK6QMmE/swexvki1SPf 0IbMPEkBZNoxjyOk/WXRXCdUi4uuMvcieGdvFHVlMNlv0shPOLDL5HacPxC8mPfnZImU NoieUp00irfr3punyx4CJzyenxMJV5DcfgHCb9DUb3k5QWbU0gcu2b1GwYVXuz6W2186 mwjg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532z/rxfHsL0RSC0018+KsEddGvpJ6TpGfQtRl21QZ/JuZq3vrth X+0BWygG0OzLAKXZSs9F+eognTW8ucRdrvlJ5Fuqv3JWmDc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzGr3Ua/nn4H6XA11I12hDbLwgfj64UyuqIyfU/w9K3LJacuMx9/xLIRkhU7WmC61mHlpxKIjzV/buoa+DCo/I= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:20db:: with SMTP id qq27mr27739976ejb.550.1597155611674; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 07:20:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6425d636-7f48-3a73-ef0e-7bb5b991360c@gmail.com> <20200810135821.GA11918@panix.com> <3ace6e62-d3cc-ef7b-56b2-9b6b5c724d5b@gmail.com> <20200811115121.GA29807@panix.com> In-Reply-To: <20200811115121.GA29807@panix.com> From: Michael Kerrisk Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 16:20:00 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Pseudoterminal terminology in POSIX To: Thor Lancelot Simon Cc: Larry Dwyer , Florian Weimer , linux-man , Geoff Clare , austin-group-l@opengroup.org, Andrew Josey , libc-alpha , Elliot Hughes , Joseph Myers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Sender: linux-man-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-man@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 1:51 PM Thor Lancelot Simon via austin-group-l at The Open Group wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 10:31:58AM +0200, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > > On 8/10/20 3:58 PM, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote: > > > On Sat, Aug 08, 2020 at 04:18:10PM -0700, Larry Dwyer via austin-group-l at The Open Group wrote: > > >> How about the "control" side and the "terminal" side (of the paired device > > >> files)? > > > > > > How about the "pty side" and the "tty side"? It seems hard to be more > > > neutral than that and we can be sure there is no ambiguity. > > > > This is an option that came up in the glibc/Linux man-pages discussion. > > My objection is that I want proper nouns that one can use in a prose > > description of pseudoterminals. > > All names are proper nouns. > > They might not be the particular proper nouns that we're used to seeing, > but they are still proper nouns! Let me clarify then: my preference is to have natural language nouns, words that a speaker who was unfamiliar with the domain would know (or could reasonably guess) how to pronounce when reading them. Thanks, Michael