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From: "Martin Ågren" <martin.agren@gmail.com>
To: Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com>
Cc: Simon Ruderich <simon@ruderich.org>,
	Brandon Williams <bmwill@google.com>,
	Git Mailing List <git@vger.kernel.org>,
	Bryan Turner <bturner@atlassian.com>,
	Jeff Hostetler <git@jeffhostetler.com>,
	Jonathan Tan <jonathantanmy@google.com>,
	Jonathan Nieder <jrnieder@gmail.com>, Jeff King <peff@peff.net>,
	Stefan Beller <sbeller@google.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 03/10] protocol: introduce protocol extention mechanisms
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 06:05:29 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAN0heSo3fQzqv8xqqBs8S5MST0fs2ABh69L0cL1mi+pwUTG8oQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <xmqq4lrcwr5c.fsf@gitster.mtv.corp.google.com>

On 6 October 2017 at 11:40, Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> wrote:
> Simon Ruderich <simon@ruderich.org> writes:
>
>> Did you consider Stefan Beller's suggestion regarding a
>> (white)list of allowed versions?
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 01:06:59PM -0700, Stefan Beller wrote:
>>> Thinking about this, how about:
>>>
>>>   If not configured, we do as we want. (i.e. Git has full control over
>>>   it's decision making process, which for now is "favor v0 over v1 as
>>>   we are experimenting with v1". This strategy may change in the future
>>>   to "prefer highest version number that both client and server can speak".)
>>>
>>>   If it is configured, "use highest configured number from the given set".
>>>
>>> ?
>>
>> It would also allow the server operator to configure only a
>> specific set of versions (to handle the "version x is
>> insecure/slow"-issue raised by Stefan Beller). The current code
>> always uses the latest protocol supported by the git binary.
>
> If we do anything less trivial than "highest supported by both" (and
> I suspect we want to in the final production version), I'd prefer
> the configuration to list versions one side supports in decreasing
> order of preference (e.g. "v3 v0 v2"), and take the earliest from
> this list that both sides know how to talk, so that we can skip
> insecure versions altogether by omitting, and we can express that we
> would rather avoid talking expensive versions unless there is no
> other version that is understood by the other side.

I think I've managed to convince myself that a blacklist would be the
most future-proof approach, simply because it cannot be overloaded with
any other meanings in the future.

If an ordering needs to be possible, that would have to go into another
config item. An ordering would open up for some interesting issues, but
at least that shouldn't be any worse because the blacklist-approach has
been taken (as opposed to a whitelist-approach).

To aid with a slow roll-out, the default blacklist could be used (start
by blacklisting v1), but after that the default list should be empty. It
should not be misused for slowly rolling out any later experimental
versions.

Letting the blacklist be different server- and client-side seems useful
for driving the experiment forwards. Post-experiment, I'm not so sure,
that just seems unnecessarily complicated.

So, here's a suggestion:

* experimental.{client,server}ProtocolV1 is "0" (don't experiment) or
  "1" (experiment).

* experimental.serverProtocolV1 has default "0". Unless early feedback
  is negative, the default is changed to "1".

* experimental.clientProtocolV1 has default "0". Switch the default to
  "1" after some time.

* Big warnings that if someone finds themselves switching to "0" they
  should get in touch.

Once we feel confident, we implement protocol.blacklist and let the
default be "". The experimental.* are simply dropped, no "aliasing" or
"transitioning". That is, we activate v0 and v1. We don't respect "0" in
a blacklist (but don't forbid it either). Once we introduce v2, sure,
but until then, some will just be tempted to blacklist v0 "to get the
modern v1" -- they will have risk, but no benefits.

Martin

  parent reply	other threads:[~2017-10-09  4:05 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 161+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-09-13 21:54 [PATCH 0/8] protocol transition Brandon Williams
2017-09-13 21:54 ` [PATCH 1/8] pkt-line: add packet_write function Brandon Williams
2017-09-13 21:54 ` [PATCH 2/8] protocol: introduce protocol extention mechanisms Brandon Williams
2017-09-13 22:27   ` Stefan Beller
2017-09-18 17:02     ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-18 18:34       ` Stefan Beller
2017-09-18 19:58         ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-18 20:06           ` Stefan Beller
2017-09-13 21:54 ` [PATCH 3/8] daemon: recognize hidden request arguments Brandon Williams
2017-09-13 22:31   ` Stefan Beller
2017-09-18 16:56     ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-21  0:24   ` Jonathan Tan
2017-09-21  0:31     ` Jonathan Tan
2017-09-21 21:55       ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-13 21:54 ` [PATCH 4/8] upload-pack, receive-pack: introduce protocol version 1 Brandon Williams
2017-09-13 21:54 ` [PATCH 5/8] connect: teach client to recognize v1 server response Brandon Williams
2017-09-13 21:54 ` [PATCH 6/8] connect: tell server that the client understands v1 Brandon Williams
2017-09-13 21:54 ` [PATCH 7/8] http: " Brandon Williams
2017-09-13 21:54 ` [PATCH 8/8] i5700: add interop test for protocol transition Brandon Williams
2017-09-20 18:48 ` [PATCH 1.5/8] connect: die when a capability line comes after a ref Brandon Williams
2017-09-20 19:14   ` Jeff King
2017-09-20 20:06     ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-20 20:48       ` Jonathan Nieder
2017-09-21  3:02       ` Junio C Hamano
2017-09-21 20:45       ` [PATCH] connect: in ref advertisement, shallows are last Jonathan Tan
2017-09-21 23:45         ` [PATCH v2] " Jonathan Tan
2017-09-22  0:00           ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-22  0:08             ` [PATCH v3] " Jonathan Tan
2017-09-22  1:06               ` Junio C Hamano
2017-09-22  1:39                 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-09-22 16:45                   ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-22 20:15                     ` [PATCH v4] " Jonathan Tan
2017-09-22 21:01                       ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-22 22:16                         ` Jonathan Tan
2017-09-24  0:52                       ` Junio C Hamano
2017-09-26 18:21         ` [PATCH v5] " Jonathan Tan
2017-09-26 18:31           ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-26 23:56 ` [PATCH v2 0/9] protocol transition Brandon Williams
2017-09-26 23:56   ` [PATCH v2 1/9] connect: in ref advertisement, shallows are last Brandon Williams
2017-09-26 23:56   ` [PATCH v2 2/9] pkt-line: add packet_write function Brandon Williams
2017-09-26 23:56   ` [PATCH v2 3/9] protocol: introduce protocol extention mechanisms Brandon Williams
2017-09-27  5:17     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-09-27 11:23       ` Junio C Hamano
2017-09-29 21:20         ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-28 21:58       ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-27  6:30     ` Stefan Beller
2017-09-28 21:04       ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-26 23:56   ` [PATCH v2 4/9] daemon: recognize hidden request arguments Brandon Williams
2017-09-27  5:20     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-09-27 21:22       ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-28 16:57         ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-26 23:56   ` [PATCH v2 5/9] upload-pack, receive-pack: introduce protocol version 1 Brandon Williams
2017-09-27  5:23     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-09-27 21:29       ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-26 23:56   ` [PATCH v2 6/9] connect: teach client to recognize v1 server response Brandon Williams
2017-09-27  1:07     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-09-27 17:34       ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-27  5:29     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-09-28 22:08       ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-26 23:56   ` [PATCH v2 7/9] connect: tell server that the client understands v1 Brandon Williams
2017-09-27  6:21     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-09-27  6:29       ` Junio C Hamano
2017-09-29 21:32         ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-28 22:20       ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-26 23:56   ` [PATCH v2 8/9] http: " Brandon Williams
2017-09-27  6:24     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-09-27 21:36       ` Brandon Williams
2017-09-26 23:56   ` [PATCH v2 9/9] i5700: add interop test for protocol transition Brandon Williams
2017-10-03 20:14   ` [PATCH v3 00/10] " Brandon Williams
2017-10-03 20:14     ` [PATCH v3 01/10] connect: in ref advertisement, shallows are last Brandon Williams
2017-10-10 18:14       ` Jonathan Tan
2017-10-03 20:14     ` [PATCH v3 02/10] pkt-line: add packet_write function Brandon Williams
2017-10-10 18:15       ` Jonathan Tan
2017-10-03 20:15     ` [PATCH v3 03/10] protocol: introduce protocol extention mechanisms Brandon Williams
2017-10-06  9:09       ` Simon Ruderich
2017-10-06  9:40         ` Junio C Hamano
2017-10-06 11:11           ` Martin Ågren
2017-10-06 12:09             ` Junio C Hamano
2017-10-06 19:42               ` Martin Ågren
2017-10-06 20:27                 ` Stefan Beller
2017-10-08 14:24                   ` Martin Ågren
2017-10-10 21:00             ` Brandon Williams
2017-10-10 21:17               ` Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-10 21:32                 ` Stefan Beller
2017-10-11  0:39                 ` Junio C Hamano
2017-10-13 22:46                 ` Brandon Williams
2017-10-09  4:05           ` Martin Ågren [this message]
2017-10-10 19:51       ` Jonathan Tan
2017-10-03 20:15     ` [PATCH v3 04/10] daemon: recognize hidden request arguments Brandon Williams
2017-10-10 18:24       ` Jonathan Tan
2017-10-13 22:04         ` Brandon Williams
2017-10-03 20:15     ` [PATCH v3 05/10] upload-pack, receive-pack: introduce protocol version 1 Brandon Williams
2017-10-10 18:28       ` Jonathan Tan
2017-10-13 22:18         ` Brandon Williams
2017-10-03 20:15     ` [PATCH v3 06/10] connect: teach client to recognize v1 server response Brandon Williams
2017-10-03 20:15     ` [PATCH v3 07/10] connect: tell server that the client understands v1 Brandon Williams
2017-10-10 18:30       ` Jonathan Tan
2017-10-13 22:56         ` Brandon Williams
2017-10-03 20:15     ` [PATCH v3 08/10] http: " Brandon Williams
2017-10-03 20:15     ` [PATCH v3 09/10] i5700: add interop test for protocol transition Brandon Williams
2017-10-03 20:15     ` [PATCH v3 10/10] ssh: introduce a 'simple' ssh variant Brandon Williams
2017-10-03 21:42       ` Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-16 17:18         ` Brandon Williams
2017-10-23 21:28           ` [PATCH 0/5] Coping with unrecognized ssh wrapper scripts in GIT_SSH Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-23 21:29             ` [PATCH 1/5] connect: split git:// setup into a separate function Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-23 22:16               ` Stefan Beller
2017-10-24  0:09                 ` [WIP PATCH] diff: add option to ignore whitespaces for move detection only Stefan Beller
2017-10-24 18:48                   ` Brandon Williams
2017-10-25  1:25                     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-10-25  1:26                       ` Junio C Hamano
2017-10-25 18:58                         ` Brandon Williams
2017-10-24  1:54                 ` [PATCH 1/5] connect: split git:// setup into a separate function Junio C Hamano
2017-10-24  2:52                   ` Stefan Beller
2017-10-23 21:30             ` [PATCH 2/5] connect: split ssh command line options into " Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-23 21:48               ` Stefan Beller
2017-10-23 21:31             ` [PATCH 3/5] ssh: 'auto' variant to select between 'ssh' and 'simple' Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-23 22:19               ` Jonathan Tan
2017-10-23 22:43                 ` Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-23 22:51                   ` Brandon Williams
2017-10-23 22:57                     ` Jonathan Tan
2017-10-23 23:16                       ` [PATCH v2 0/5] Coping with unrecognized ssh wrapper scripts in GIT_SSH Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-23 23:17                         ` [PATCH 1/5] connect: split git:// setup into a separate function Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-24  1:44                           ` Junio C Hamano
2017-11-15 20:25                             ` Jonathan Nieder
2017-11-17  1:12                               ` Junio C Hamano
2017-10-23 23:17                         ` [PATCH 2/5] connect: split ssh command line options into " Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-24  2:01                           ` Junio C Hamano
2017-10-23 23:18                         ` [PATCH 3/5] ssh: 'auto' variant to select between 'ssh' and 'simple' Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-23 23:27                           ` Brandon Williams
2017-10-23 23:33                             ` Stefan Beller
2017-10-23 23:19                         ` [PATCH 4/5] ssh: 'simple' variant does not support -4/-6 Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-23 23:19                         ` [PATCH 5/5] ssh: 'simple' variant does not support --port Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-24  2:22                         ` [PATCH v2 0/5] Coping with unrecognized ssh wrapper scripts in GIT_SSH Junio C Hamano
2017-10-23 23:12                     ` [PATCH 3/5] ssh: 'auto' variant to select between 'ssh' and 'simple' Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-23 22:33               ` Stefan Beller
2017-10-23 22:54                 ` Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-24  2:16               ` Junio C Hamano
2017-10-25 12:51               ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-10-25 16:18                 ` Stefan Beller
2017-10-25 16:32                   ` Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-30  0:40                     ` Junio C Hamano
2017-10-30 12:37                       ` Johannes Schindelin
2017-10-23 21:32             ` [PATCH 4/5] ssh: 'simple' variant does not support -4/-6 Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-23 21:33             ` [PATCH 5/5] ssh: 'simple' variant does not support --port Jonathan Nieder
2017-10-23 22:37               ` Stefan Beller
2017-10-04  6:20     ` [PATCH v3 00/10] protocol transition Junio C Hamano
2017-10-10 19:39     ` [PATCH] Documentation: document Extra Parameters Jonathan Tan
2017-10-13 22:26       ` Brandon Williams
2017-10-16 17:55     ` [PATCH v4 00/11] protocol transition Brandon Williams
2017-10-16 17:55       ` [PATCH v4 01/11] connect: in ref advertisement, shallows are last Brandon Williams
2017-10-16 17:55       ` [PATCH v4 02/11] pkt-line: add packet_write function Brandon Williams
2017-10-16 17:55       ` [PATCH v4 03/11] protocol: introduce protocol extension mechanisms Brandon Williams
2017-10-16 21:25         ` Kevin Daudt
2017-10-16 17:55       ` [PATCH v4 04/11] daemon: recognize hidden request arguments Brandon Williams
2017-10-16 17:55       ` [PATCH v4 05/11] upload-pack, receive-pack: introduce protocol version 1 Brandon Williams
2017-10-16 17:55       ` [PATCH v4 06/11] connect: teach client to recognize v1 server response Brandon Williams
2017-10-16 17:55       ` [PATCH v4 07/11] connect: tell server that the client understands v1 Brandon Williams
2017-10-16 17:55       ` [PATCH v4 08/11] http: " Brandon Williams
2017-10-16 17:55       ` [PATCH v4 09/11] i5700: add interop test for protocol transition Brandon Williams
2017-10-16 17:55       ` [PATCH v4 10/11] ssh: introduce a 'simple' ssh variant Brandon Williams
2017-10-16 17:55       ` [PATCH v4 11/11] Documentation: document Extra Parameters Brandon Williams

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