From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18411C6379F for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40332076E for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:39 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="ZA1WcoeO" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1732288AbgKWS4P (ORCPT ); Mon, 23 Nov 2020 13:56:15 -0500 Received: from lindbergh.monkeyblade.net ([23.128.96.19]:59118 "EHLO lindbergh.monkeyblade.net" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1728339AbgKWS4N (ORCPT ); Mon, 23 Nov 2020 13:56:13 -0500 Received: from mail-yb1-xb41.google.com (mail-yb1-xb41.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b41]) by lindbergh.monkeyblade.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 01289C061A4D; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb41.google.com with SMTP id v92so16909006ybi.4; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=ZA1WcoeOdsWbRfOoumZEJTLTRH6V2Lpq2CDbZ0VVs1hbOT/vd/v8/YkJaULhb4MkV5 MHmDtgQZ7Y6vQOoRafNcjdab1m8jmYbh8Ox0xcyAJF866JXyArBCoNYzebFkQV1wRZF3 r3hM3WSnIq7Ht5VQ2PIwvurJMfamtV7PLgYZxEoHoT74qEv3IGeXPryfDRdu7AW/qetQ L1ocOXaYsoIrsq1AVQ8cgaa4G2qWRkZviQ+mOBHOVW/MFUti3ALLJAr2MKUeWh+s4BW6 tAJsdEl41qUIuUvcW5DdLnVlmhWMC8lZFuXyyo4x1R3eX3DaWLHh1JzDrRZDt/CN6qga 036w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=cwcDHDSY8W9xdxXPCpZphqylE+s3MSaZikE0CZjpiiG5lTxXJwXfkh5nLxhPGO+XIv eL0FFYvPnKAK5sCCDOcnWyC4jxIVzIaDBIAj+xBZxYNd7/llG22HQ/kdX2IbMecorszD hEO6WdCTfrNVWexUYCMWoj6JXf8G22E0bBTXEwiJD2sKL6Yn2TgzqUgjxd/KxrVmC727 bbZmJVVn6kRLddllbQWCsMObKbXzaTOUDtcskwA8UdYYIOKelG7ArIvkaabsrQ1/+v6W 6EgiOqUz1woWvdq9qLAqHja8Ing42p0680TG/nqYxSWGaFRuHleuL40GVfdqpzEuCvKM clsA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530fACWUHhvC6hWrU1MzVj1zVMilD8v5xY4DNSL7OaB2TkVFLwrp 1NHEeOio++xbCI2i2p7M7OVxGr+UrwqXSdQhf5s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhWLCSkpSmtD0p55Cmpr9Ao1aJs0IYHWLu4Tcyj9q39OBvqgrIxMZMaEy7w1zacpD3mVr5R93EsjzwMBkGuSA= X-Received: by 2002:a25:df55:: with SMTP id w82mr977719ybg.135.1606157772316; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang To: James Bottomley Cc: Kees Cook , Jakub Kicinski , "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , linux-kernel , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, cluster-devel@redhat.com, coreteam@netfilter.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, Linux ARM , linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, Ext4 Developers List , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, Linux Media Mailing List , linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, Linux-MM , linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , Network Development , netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, patches@opensource.cirrus.com, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, selinux@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org, Nick Desaulniers , Nathan Chancellor , Miguel Ojeda , Joe Perches Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CC9FC2D0E4 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from kanga.kvack.org (kanga.kvack.org [205.233.56.17]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE62C20729 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:14 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="ZA1WcoeO" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org DE62C20729 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) id 56FA16B0036; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 13:56:14 -0500 (EST) Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 40) id 51FED6B005D; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 13:56:14 -0500 (EST) X-Delivered-To: int-list-linux-mm@kvack.org Received: by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix, from userid 63042) id 3BFD36B006E; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 13:56:14 -0500 (EST) X-Delivered-To: linux-mm@kvack.org Received: from forelay.hostedemail.com (smtprelay0182.hostedemail.com [216.40.44.182]) by kanga.kvack.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C9DD6B0036 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 13:56:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtpin14.hostedemail.com (10.5.19.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.19.251]) by forelay05.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0BF7181AEF1E for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:13 +0000 (UTC) X-FDA: 77516588226.14.sound38_170d55e27367 Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (10.5.16.251.rfc1918.com [10.5.16.251]) by smtpin14.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4881822987B for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:13 +0000 (UTC) X-HE-Tag: sound38_170d55e27367 X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 8241 Received: from mail-yb1-f195.google.com (mail-yb1-f195.google.com [209.85.219.195]) by imf27.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yb1-f195.google.com with SMTP id 10so16902744ybx.9 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=ZA1WcoeOdsWbRfOoumZEJTLTRH6V2Lpq2CDbZ0VVs1hbOT/vd/v8/YkJaULhb4MkV5 MHmDtgQZ7Y6vQOoRafNcjdab1m8jmYbh8Ox0xcyAJF866JXyArBCoNYzebFkQV1wRZF3 r3hM3WSnIq7Ht5VQ2PIwvurJMfamtV7PLgYZxEoHoT74qEv3IGeXPryfDRdu7AW/qetQ L1ocOXaYsoIrsq1AVQ8cgaa4G2qWRkZviQ+mOBHOVW/MFUti3ALLJAr2MKUeWh+s4BW6 tAJsdEl41qUIuUvcW5DdLnVlmhWMC8lZFuXyyo4x1R3eX3DaWLHh1JzDrRZDt/CN6qga 036w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=JHrAaBLF0To/0B+Ul4O0DwryzdmoSoeyED7ltyqZ1RkMbZKRmqilIcWro6Jjlmvk5+ FFunOhTtnqBlLXlJsTIJIqIX0prkMSbrVgAk5eHifq8qUYh+0qyBEbJaG9MPfdpA26MU CX5l1+mPxDbya3lrwLN/bkFAy9LEgEM6YCuvaPw+ZmZq2xxL4dl3GuTQigkV0ForDWyi m3cdrwcNAg5jDk2h9SM/xq8OVssvlZnC5MUJ5qRLACExlPyMiArsTsJLLyF8/T7mVONn YeDZ5+UiMbzhCX72cK3oE2qMezBruVmoRGdWJ37UdfVP5YZanJtxVS9Y4EP72oSUnpl5 u9tQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530OiGCQRaM6Dh7Eltkb7aBRA7sEq2Dk7D9oIzXeY3cpK9G8ESqz zp2PVDGkcyi/pkjMZUlbQJBFr6D5KsA17LQK+gM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhWLCSkpSmtD0p55Cmpr9Ao1aJs0IYHWLu4Tcyj9q39OBvqgrIxMZMaEy7w1zacpD3mVr5R93EsjzwMBkGuSA= X-Received: by 2002:a25:df55:: with SMTP id w82mr977719ybg.135.1606157772316; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang To: James Bottomley Cc: Kees Cook , Jakub Kicinski , "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , linux-kernel , alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, cluster-devel@redhat.com, coreteam@netfilter.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, Linux ARM , linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, Ext4 Developers List , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-input , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, Linux Media Mailing List , linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, Linux-MM , linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , Network Development , netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, patches@opensource.cirrus.com, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, selinux@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" , xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org, Nick Desaulniers , Nathan Chancellor , Miguel Ojeda , Joe Perches Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000001, version=1.2.4 Sender: owner-linux-mm@kvack.org Precedence: bulk X-Loop: owner-majordomo@kvack.org List-ID: On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5229C63697 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from whitealder.osuosl.org (smtp1.osuosl.org [140.211.166.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C55920729 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:18 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="ZA1WcoeO" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 3C55920729 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; 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Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-yb1-f193.google.com (mail-yb1-f193.google.com [209.85.219.193]) by fraxinus.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39AA584F7A for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yb1-f193.google.com with SMTP id g15so16889342ybq.6 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=ZA1WcoeOdsWbRfOoumZEJTLTRH6V2Lpq2CDbZ0VVs1hbOT/vd/v8/YkJaULhb4MkV5 MHmDtgQZ7Y6vQOoRafNcjdab1m8jmYbh8Ox0xcyAJF866JXyArBCoNYzebFkQV1wRZF3 r3hM3WSnIq7Ht5VQ2PIwvurJMfamtV7PLgYZxEoHoT74qEv3IGeXPryfDRdu7AW/qetQ L1ocOXaYsoIrsq1AVQ8cgaa4G2qWRkZviQ+mOBHOVW/MFUti3ALLJAr2MKUeWh+s4BW6 tAJsdEl41qUIuUvcW5DdLnVlmhWMC8lZFuXyyo4x1R3eX3DaWLHh1JzDrRZDt/CN6qga 036w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=RbuWKCrEfhyAbVURsFGsQjHZdyR3J+wgTabCVrkD0TfeQnyJACm3WCS/aYARFKWHAU +oxDnszIIxNMW7HwTxH9dVmfO0nbBwxy3KfKBG7/PErJ374S9fVB26j9DD3qRsxgkaxb nvv8bb1H7oyHk5klaZHuhqHA5Sgk2vsOOK9nVLwOwcdAnhB06YosZ8foLkU73oNN1u8w KhUosDgS/m4MNmPFVVncYJmnQMNf/BDt5dQRusViSTsv7AAVKhh8T+Aq953Pn3RKqYIU pImdyyoDV2KJVn0Xjt2ezOrQIuy2QVr6V18N7QDZOUnRUR9jHHQPZ/EZFytwEQ+wdzB4 RLrg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531SBLdxX0OZ8WUTfHIG/yjrnCqN0MGsCMCDeNNfWD8XU65O4TDY U7TZNkJG9Zlpojz65Oj8u4MhJj5azOaCRKMwxsQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhWLCSkpSmtD0p55Cmpr9Ao1aJs0IYHWLu4Tcyj9q39OBvqgrIxMZMaEy7w1zacpD3mVr5R93EsjzwMBkGuSA= X-Received: by 2002:a25:df55:: with SMTP id w82mr977719ybg.135.1606157772316; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang To: James Bottomley X-BeenThere: driverdev-devel@linuxdriverproject.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Linux Driver Project Developer List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: driverdev-devel-bounces@linuxdriverproject.org Sender: "devel" On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel _______________________________________________ devel mailing list devel@linuxdriverproject.org http://driverdev.linuxdriverproject.org/mailman/listinfo/driverdev-devel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EA3AC2D0E4 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 17:16:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from alsa0.perex.cz (alsa0.perex.cz [77.48.224.243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A67DC2086A for ; 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Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang To: James Bottomley Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 17:58:08 +0100 Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org X-BeenThere: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: "Alsa-devel mailing list for ALSA developers - http://www.alsa-project.org" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: alsa-devel-bounces@alsa-project.org Sender: "Alsa-devel" On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1322C63697 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6702320729 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:57 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lists.infradead.org header.i=@lists.infradead.org header.b="qBqhmPCy"; 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Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=merlin.infradead.org) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khH0e-0001BD-SH; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:21 +0000 Received: from mail-yb1-xb42.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b42]) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1khH0Y-00018H-Bj; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:15 +0000 Received: by mail-yb1-xb42.google.com with SMTP id l14so16929379ybq.3; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=ZA1WcoeOdsWbRfOoumZEJTLTRH6V2Lpq2CDbZ0VVs1hbOT/vd/v8/YkJaULhb4MkV5 MHmDtgQZ7Y6vQOoRafNcjdab1m8jmYbh8Ox0xcyAJF866JXyArBCoNYzebFkQV1wRZF3 r3hM3WSnIq7Ht5VQ2PIwvurJMfamtV7PLgYZxEoHoT74qEv3IGeXPryfDRdu7AW/qetQ L1ocOXaYsoIrsq1AVQ8cgaa4G2qWRkZviQ+mOBHOVW/MFUti3ALLJAr2MKUeWh+s4BW6 tAJsdEl41qUIuUvcW5DdLnVlmhWMC8lZFuXyyo4x1R3eX3DaWLHh1JzDrRZDt/CN6qga 036w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=tPBJvC7qzSKn8I89NViTOUIaCldIWRXSFlH/V17//qA+HYsDSxMNIHnBgjQJmJV0aQ H2bP71sI+kgCx0AoeXhVbULUv7byvLNJZ7555J48bQnta/+zhVFjBacEXlpgLoV4yYq9 apXMXV35yqLPEoO6heIQtOTCYBpZh4HGie+Tz8aBTbwxCt/GemO2+Orh+BdPyiP+FiQ1 xGDrY6CjtDjY/xU0BBj5wmSEbcNqK4ySWCyrgYJ1SuhF1V15AJPJLGS+jzUBv/gwgQNl DK8fLUYSfjZuRa5/HlLb+430OsQ7sXShqSLXd+/DKfhhxB8Eq1suHCSyu+KfiL7GDokA wUvg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5336UZ554dFRqbUzRd/LQwsH2JvpYFnrDlXNptHpxt5zilgnmKkR 6sIqSgqxH/iTJuYdh96M6zIY3d+/qKQMQ5U03go= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhWLCSkpSmtD0p55Cmpr9Ao1aJs0IYHWLu4Tcyj9q39OBvqgrIxMZMaEy7w1zacpD3mVr5R93EsjzwMBkGuSA= X-Received: by 2002:a25:df55:: with SMTP id w82mr977719ybg.135.1606157772316; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang To: James Bottomley X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20201123_135614_460213_B3F9BE02 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 16.32 ) X-BeenThere: linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Linux MTD discussion mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-mtd" Errors-To: linux-mtd-bounces+linux-mtd=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel ______________________________________________________ Linux MTD discussion mailing list http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/ From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 784DAC2D0E4 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0867820732 for ; 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Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang To: James Bottomley X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20201123_135614_460213_B3F9BE02 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 16.32 ) X-BeenThere: linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "Linux-mediatek" Errors-To: linux-mediatek-bounces+linux-mediatek=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel _______________________________________________ Linux-mediatek mailing list Linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mediatek From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50813C2D0E4 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: from silver.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9976E20729 for ; 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=ZA1WcoeOdsWbRfOoumZEJTLTRH6V2Lpq2CDbZ0VVs1hbOT/vd/v8/YkJaULhb4MkV5 MHmDtgQZ7Y6vQOoRafNcjdab1m8jmYbh8Ox0xcyAJF866JXyArBCoNYzebFkQV1wRZF3 r3hM3WSnIq7Ht5VQ2PIwvurJMfamtV7PLgYZxEoHoT74qEv3IGeXPryfDRdu7AW/qetQ L1ocOXaYsoIrsq1AVQ8cgaa4G2qWRkZviQ+mOBHOVW/MFUti3ALLJAr2MKUeWh+s4BW6 tAJsdEl41qUIuUvcW5DdLnVlmhWMC8lZFuXyyo4x1R3eX3DaWLHh1JzDrRZDt/CN6qga 036w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=HSko134zwG5NPctZRnkj3IjobA+dDhW90CTIQsi2eKvnueOOfQ2Y9zAV8mct722Qjf a+KKPav5acxwntUNSaSNYOvl7rRdyc7OfoRNVKP8fWDP9g1oWpCj1nfDvpgKokWoimcD aH3Mgf2JX31NIj9N3AxGJpDspikexeM6hZGHNcoo5MpIYdQqwCLUEtOuy7qZ/NslXZVz JK6V9VP1Mm/gAb+XNuG46bfgNYCxt31i4cvvtxXOrU7+vQINpgzWuGFuZhoXmnvvF47t pSP84r27d0Un4sOzQoK/fa7P47MIvSQMq5e2S8kUPvqvNr1SpBc//pLlERfd0wOff/MQ UclQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53019tdWvDstmEpf8G2twGbZTBKz6giVh5EHg7zD6hhofmNv92Qp 5l/D7d9m4qa2Tx/0SPamF2Kf2m7Ic+h5KiM38xI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhWLCSkpSmtD0p55Cmpr9Ao1aJs0IYHWLu4Tcyj9q39OBvqgrIxMZMaEy7w1zacpD3mVr5R93EsjzwMBkGuSA= X-Received: by 2002:a25:df55:: with SMTP id w82mr977719ybg.135.1606157772316; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang To: James Bottomley Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org X-BeenThere: virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Linux virtualization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: virtualization-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org Sender: "Virtualization" On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel _______________________________________________ Virtualization mailing list Virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/virtualization From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9255AC56201 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:08:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E97F6206D9 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:08:42 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="ZA1WcoeO" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org E97F6206D9 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8A606E202; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:08:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yb1-xb43.google.com (mail-yb1-xb43.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b43]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D90D6E072; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yb1-xb43.google.com with SMTP id g15so16889343ybq.6; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=ZA1WcoeOdsWbRfOoumZEJTLTRH6V2Lpq2CDbZ0VVs1hbOT/vd/v8/YkJaULhb4MkV5 MHmDtgQZ7Y6vQOoRafNcjdab1m8jmYbh8Ox0xcyAJF866JXyArBCoNYzebFkQV1wRZF3 r3hM3WSnIq7Ht5VQ2PIwvurJMfamtV7PLgYZxEoHoT74qEv3IGeXPryfDRdu7AW/qetQ L1ocOXaYsoIrsq1AVQ8cgaa4G2qWRkZviQ+mOBHOVW/MFUti3ALLJAr2MKUeWh+s4BW6 tAJsdEl41qUIuUvcW5DdLnVlmhWMC8lZFuXyyo4x1R3eX3DaWLHh1JzDrRZDt/CN6qga 036w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=bHzmiJh09W8JDxNkgWE08VfUooPAB0WmjpWRNr+cum/RmyLFjCLFcOyAKQhaU4ZOGT gI9W17lm40hh9D+B3trKiDpuhbd+fZmhy33H8irLCoo5ROkE4N4OJhUWF9GKBreVyC1m xcoDtSAS6gxujG8qdzEDdckKT+HKft5SypaO6+RDXKFt+LJIFFo1dTWj355BDmzs0zC2 oY6CAvL8fR7ZyabOV9tsjytPQIFrNdvxQGaNKItBL0IjlSTpCo1Zz6nTVyDFjHXhEA38 1OaXpy2oRCo2Bp5hhCdjYztor5lMLBgoKggCrWg/ZcAVnpBLU7AVNx6/tpjQKl8djhS6 bWHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533L6FXfObHwNgiURa9cQASSffO5t4Wz0KeOLEkby6h57fPjVcqM qvrDWRBjioTH1Jz3L9gMqsBYN+bUp2k1n+s0pJI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhWLCSkpSmtD0p55Cmpr9Ao1aJs0IYHWLu4Tcyj9q39OBvqgrIxMZMaEy7w1zacpD3mVr5R93EsjzwMBkGuSA= X-Received: by 2002:a25:df55:: with SMTP id w82mr977719ybg.135.1606157772316; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang To: James Bottomley X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:08:40 +0000 X-BeenThere: dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Direct Rendering Infrastructure - Development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: dri-devel-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "dri-devel" On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel _______________________________________________ dri-devel mailing list dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/dri-devel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6366C2D0E4 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:54:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-124.mimecast.com [216.205.24.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16EC02073C for ; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:54:24 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 16EC02073C Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=tempfail smtp.mailfrom=dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-569-79aGIppXPs6aYYCXWWK5FA-1; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 03:54:20 -0500 X-MC-Unique: 79aGIppXPs6aYYCXWWK5FA-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx01.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB45F100C608; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:54:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from colo-mx.corp.redhat.com (colo-mx01.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.20]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8ECD71F0; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:54:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com (lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.19.33]) by colo-mx.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B06A180954D; 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Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: To: James Bottomley X-Mimecast-Impersonation-Protect: Policy=CLT - Impersonation Protection Definition; Similar Internal Domain=false; Similar Monitored External Domain=false; Custom External Domain=false; Mimecast External Domain=false; Newly Observed Domain=false; Internal User Name=false; Custom Display Name List=false; Reply-to Address Mismatch=false; Targeted Threat Dictionary=false; Mimecast Threat Dictionary=false; Custom Threat Dictionary=false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.11.54.3 X-loop: dm-devel@redhat.com X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 03:53:49 -0500 Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, drbd-dev@tron.linbit.com, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [dm-devel] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang X-BeenThere: dm-devel@redhat.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: junk List-Id: device-mapper development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com Errors-To: dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.11 Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=dm-devel-bounces@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel -- dm-devel mailing list dm-devel@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/dm-devel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4BFDC2D0E4 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:11:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1852C221E9 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:11:01 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="ZA1WcoeO" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 1852C221E9 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=intel-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A9F589FD7; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:11:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yb1-xb43.google.com (mail-yb1-xb43.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b43]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D90D6E072; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yb1-xb43.google.com with SMTP id g15so16889343ybq.6; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=ZA1WcoeOdsWbRfOoumZEJTLTRH6V2Lpq2CDbZ0VVs1hbOT/vd/v8/YkJaULhb4MkV5 MHmDtgQZ7Y6vQOoRafNcjdab1m8jmYbh8Ox0xcyAJF866JXyArBCoNYzebFkQV1wRZF3 r3hM3WSnIq7Ht5VQ2PIwvurJMfamtV7PLgYZxEoHoT74qEv3IGeXPryfDRdu7AW/qetQ L1ocOXaYsoIrsq1AVQ8cgaa4G2qWRkZviQ+mOBHOVW/MFUti3ALLJAr2MKUeWh+s4BW6 tAJsdEl41qUIuUvcW5DdLnVlmhWMC8lZFuXyyo4x1R3eX3DaWLHh1JzDrRZDt/CN6qga 036w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=bHzmiJh09W8JDxNkgWE08VfUooPAB0WmjpWRNr+cum/RmyLFjCLFcOyAKQhaU4ZOGT gI9W17lm40hh9D+B3trKiDpuhbd+fZmhy33H8irLCoo5ROkE4N4OJhUWF9GKBreVyC1m xcoDtSAS6gxujG8qdzEDdckKT+HKft5SypaO6+RDXKFt+LJIFFo1dTWj355BDmzs0zC2 oY6CAvL8fR7ZyabOV9tsjytPQIFrNdvxQGaNKItBL0IjlSTpCo1Zz6nTVyDFjHXhEA38 1OaXpy2oRCo2Bp5hhCdjYztor5lMLBgoKggCrWg/ZcAVnpBLU7AVNx6/tpjQKl8djhS6 bWHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533L6FXfObHwNgiURa9cQASSffO5t4Wz0KeOLEkby6h57fPjVcqM qvrDWRBjioTH1Jz3L9gMqsBYN+bUp2k1n+s0pJI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhWLCSkpSmtD0p55Cmpr9Ao1aJs0IYHWLu4Tcyj9q39OBvqgrIxMZMaEy7w1zacpD3mVr5R93EsjzwMBkGuSA= X-Received: by 2002:a25:df55:: with SMTP id w82mr977719ybg.135.1606157772316; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: To: James Bottomley X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:11:00 +0000 Subject: Re: [Intel-gfx] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang X-BeenThere: intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Intel graphics driver community testing & development List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: intel-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "Intel-gfx" On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel _______________________________________________ Intel-gfx mailing list Intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/intel-gfx From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 724CEC2D0E4 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:55:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (gabe.freedesktop.org [131.252.210.177]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B11E20717 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:55:01 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="ZA1WcoeO" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 0B11E20717 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=amd-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Received: from gabe.freedesktop.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43EA26E0A6; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:54:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yb1-xb43.google.com (mail-yb1-xb43.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b43]) by gabe.freedesktop.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D90D6E072; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:56:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yb1-xb43.google.com with SMTP id g15so16889343ybq.6; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=ZA1WcoeOdsWbRfOoumZEJTLTRH6V2Lpq2CDbZ0VVs1hbOT/vd/v8/YkJaULhb4MkV5 MHmDtgQZ7Y6vQOoRafNcjdab1m8jmYbh8Ox0xcyAJF866JXyArBCoNYzebFkQV1wRZF3 r3hM3WSnIq7Ht5VQ2PIwvurJMfamtV7PLgYZxEoHoT74qEv3IGeXPryfDRdu7AW/qetQ L1ocOXaYsoIrsq1AVQ8cgaa4G2qWRkZviQ+mOBHOVW/MFUti3ALLJAr2MKUeWh+s4BW6 tAJsdEl41qUIuUvcW5DdLnVlmhWMC8lZFuXyyo4x1R3eX3DaWLHh1JzDrRZDt/CN6qga 036w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=bHzmiJh09W8JDxNkgWE08VfUooPAB0WmjpWRNr+cum/RmyLFjCLFcOyAKQhaU4ZOGT gI9W17lm40hh9D+B3trKiDpuhbd+fZmhy33H8irLCoo5ROkE4N4OJhUWF9GKBreVyC1m xcoDtSAS6gxujG8qdzEDdckKT+HKft5SypaO6+RDXKFt+LJIFFo1dTWj355BDmzs0zC2 oY6CAvL8fR7ZyabOV9tsjytPQIFrNdvxQGaNKItBL0IjlSTpCo1Zz6nTVyDFjHXhEA38 1OaXpy2oRCo2Bp5hhCdjYztor5lMLBgoKggCrWg/ZcAVnpBLU7AVNx6/tpjQKl8djhS6 bWHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533L6FXfObHwNgiURa9cQASSffO5t4Wz0KeOLEkby6h57fPjVcqM qvrDWRBjioTH1Jz3L9gMqsBYN+bUp2k1n+s0pJI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyhWLCSkpSmtD0p55Cmpr9Ao1aJs0IYHWLu4Tcyj9q39OBvqgrIxMZMaEy7w1zacpD3mVr5R93EsjzwMBkGuSA= X-Received: by 2002:a25:df55:: with SMTP id w82mr977719ybg.135.1606157772316; Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang To: James Bottomley X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:54:56 +0000 X-BeenThere: amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion list for AMD gfx List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: amd-gfx-bounces@lists.freedesktop.org Sender: "amd-gfx" On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel _______________________________________________ amd-gfx mailing list amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/amd-gfx From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 098E1C56201 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:57:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D5812083E for ; 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Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang To: James Bottomley X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20201123_135614_460213_B3F9BE02 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 16.32 ) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 04:56:59 -0500 X-BeenThere: linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-i3c" Errors-To: linux-i3c-bounces+linux-i3c=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel -- linux-i3c mailing list linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-i3c From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Subject: [Intel-wired-lan] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: intel-wired-lan@osuosl.org List-ID: On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Subject: [Cluster-devel] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang In-Reply-To: References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> Message-ID: List-Id: To: cluster-devel.redhat.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KNG9rf3jiBLOHJ1Qe+5HClUHwDC8G2v5PJoNSRMQj2o=; b=ZA1WcoeOdsWbRfOoumZEJTLTRH6V2Lpq2CDbZ0VVs1hbOT/vd/v8/YkJaULhb4MkV5 MHmDtgQZ7Y6vQOoRafNcjdab1m8jmYbh8Ox0xcyAJF866JXyArBCoNYzebFkQV1wRZF3 r3hM3WSnIq7Ht5VQ2PIwvurJMfamtV7PLgYZxEoHoT74qEv3IGeXPryfDRdu7AW/qetQ L1ocOXaYsoIrsq1AVQ8cgaa4G2qWRkZviQ+mOBHOVW/MFUti3ALLJAr2MKUeWh+s4BW6 tAJsdEl41qUIuUvcW5DdLnVlmhWMC8lZFuXyyo4x1R3eX3DaWLHh1JzDrRZDt/CN6qga 036w== MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201120105344.4345c14e@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011201129.B13FDB3C@keescook> <20201120115142.292999b2@kicinski-fedora-pc1c0hjn.dhcp.thefacebook.com> <202011220816.8B6591A@keescook> <9b57fd4914b46f38d54087d75e072d6e947cb56d.camel@HansenPartnership.com> <1c7d7fde126bc0acf825766de64bf2f9b888f216.camel@HansenPartnership.com> In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [Bridge] [PATCH 000/141] Fix fall-through warnings for Clang List-Id: Linux Ethernet Bridging List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: James Bottomley Cc: alsa-devel@alsa-project.org, linux-atm-general@lists.sourceforge.net, reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-iio@vger.kernel.org, linux-wireless , linux-fbdev@vger.kernel.org, dri-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, "Gustavo A. R. Silva" , Nathan Chancellor , linux-ide@vger.kernel.org, dm-devel@redhat.com, keyrings@vger.kernel.org, linux-mtd@lists.infradead.org, GR-everest-linux-l2@marvell.com, wcn36xx@lists.infradead.org, samba-technical@lists.samba.org, linux-i3c@lists.infradead.org, linux1394-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-afs@lists.infradead.org, usb-storage@lists.one-eyed-alien.net, drbd-dev@lists.linbit.com, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, linux-cifs@vger.kernel.org, rds-devel@oss.oracle.com, Nick Desaulniers , linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org, linux-rdma@vger.kernel.org, oss-drivers@netronome.com, bridge@lists.linux-foundation.org, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org, amd-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-stm32@st-md-mailman.stormreply.com, cluster-devel@redhat.com, linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org, coreteam@netfilter.org, intel-wired-lan@lists.osuosl.org, linux-input , Miguel Ojeda , Jakub Kicinski , Ext4 Developers List , Linux Media Mailing List , Kees Cook , selinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-msm@vger.kernel.org, intel-gfx@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-geode@lists.infradead.org, linux-can@vger.kernel.org, linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-gpio@vger.kernel.org, op-tee@lists.trustedfirmware.org, linux-mediatek@lists.infradead.org, xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org, nouveau@lists.freedesktop.org, linux-hams@vger.kernel.org, ceph-devel@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Linux ARM , linux-hwmon@vger.kernel.org, linux-watchdog@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, GR-Linux-NIC-Dev@marvell.com, tipc-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net, Linux-MM , Network Development , linux-decnet-user@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-mmc@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE (32-BIT AND 64-BIT)" , linux-renesas-soc@vger.kernel.org, linux-sctp@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, netfilter-devel@vger.kernel.org, Linux Crypto Mailing List , patches@opensource.cirrus.com, Joe Perches , linux-integrity@vger.kernel.org, target-devel@vger.kernel.org, linux-hardening@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 4:58 PM James Bottomley wrote: > > Well, I used git. It says that as of today in Linus' tree we have 889 > patches related to fall throughs and the first series went in in > october 2017 ... ignoring a couple of outliers back to February. I can see ~10k insertions over ~1k commits and 15 years that mention a fallthrough in the entire repo. That is including some commits (like the biggest one, 960 insertions) that have nothing to do with C fallthrough. A single kernel release has an order of magnitude more changes than this... But if we do the math, for an author, at even 1 minute per line change and assuming nothing can be automated at all, it would take 1 month of work. For maintainers, a couple of trivial lines is noise compared to many other patches. In fact, this discussion probably took more time than the time it would take to review the 200 lines. :-) > We're also complaining about the inability to recruit maintainers: > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/hard_to_find_linux_maintainers_says_torvalds/ > > And burn out: > > http://antirez.com/news/129 Accepting trivial and useful 1-line patches is not what makes a voluntary maintainer quit... Thankless work with demanding deadlines is. > The whole crux of your argument seems to be maintainers' time isn't > important so we should accept all trivial patches I have not said that, at all. In fact, I am a voluntary one and I welcome patches like this. It takes very little effort on my side to review and it helps the kernel overall. Paid maintainers are the ones that can take care of big features/reviews. > What I'm actually trying to articulate is a way of measuring value of > the patch vs cost ... it has nothing really to do with who foots the > actual bill. I understand your point, but you were the one putting it in terms of a junior FTE. In my view, 1 month-work (worst case) is very much worth removing a class of errors from a critical codebase. > One thesis I'm actually starting to formulate is that this continual > devaluing of maintainers is why we have so much difficulty keeping and > recruiting them. That may very well be true, but I don't feel anybody has devalued maintainers in this discussion. Cheers, Miguel