From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1755505Ab1KGNMb (ORCPT ); Mon, 7 Nov 2011 08:12:31 -0500 Received: from mail-vw0-f46.google.com ([209.85.212.46]:65379 "EHLO mail-vw0-f46.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1754394Ab1KGNM3 convert rfc822-to-8bit (ORCPT ); Mon, 7 Nov 2011 08:12:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20111107124757.GC24685@thunk.org> References: <4EB680D9.2070706@redhat.com> <877C82F4-F07C-44AA-8722-3AF57CFC4597@suse.de> <4EB7B1A9.9000409@redhat.com> <4EB7CA52.5050409@redhat.com> <20111107122902.GA24685@thunk.org> <20111107124757.GC24685@thunk.org> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:12:28 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: nZcwRMgAvmVrAWBJ8Xkl5YjfceA Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH] KVM: Add wrapper script around QEMU to test kernels From: Pekka Enberg To: "Ted Ts'o" , Pekka Enberg , Gerd Hoffmann , Pekka Enberg , Alexander Graf , Avi Kivity , Linus Torvalds , Ingo Molnar , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List" , "kvm@vger.kernel.org list" , qemu-devel Developers , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Am=E9rico_Wang?= , Blue Swirl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Ted Ts'o wrote: > I don't think perf should be used as a precendent that now argues that > any new kernel utility should be moved into the kernel sources.  Does > it make sense to move all of mount, fsck, login, etc., into the kernel > sources?  There are far more kernel tools outside of the kernel > sources than inside the kernel sources. You seem to think that the KVM tool was developed in isolation and we simply copied the code to tools/kvm for the pull request. That's simply not true. We've done a lot of work to make the code feel like kernel code from locking primitive APIs to serial console emulation register names. We really consider KVM tool to be a new Linux subsystem. It's the long lost cousin or bastard child of KVM, depending on who you ask. I don't know if it makes sense to merge the tools you've mentioned above. My gut feeling is that it's probably not reasonable - there's already a community working on it with their own development process and coding style. I don't think there's a simple answer to this but I don't agree with your rather extreme position that all userspace tools should be kept out of the kernel tree. Pekka From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:60902) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RNP02-00079y-2x for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 08:12:34 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RNP00-0000ui-U4 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 08:12:30 -0500 Received: from mail-vw0-f45.google.com ([209.85.212.45]:44273) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RNP00-0000ue-QI for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 08:12:28 -0500 Received: by vws17 with SMTP id 17so185897vws.4 for ; Mon, 07 Nov 2011 05:12:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: penberg@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20111107124757.GC24685@thunk.org> References: <4EB680D9.2070706@redhat.com> <877C82F4-F07C-44AA-8722-3AF57CFC4597@suse.de> <4EB7B1A9.9000409@redhat.com> <4EB7CA52.5050409@redhat.com> <20111107122902.GA24685@thunk.org> <20111107124757.GC24685@thunk.org> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 15:12:28 +0200 Message-ID: From: Pekka Enberg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH] KVM: Add wrapper script around QEMU to test kernels List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: Ted Ts'o , Pekka Enberg , Gerd Hoffmann , Pekka Enberg , Alexander Graf , Avi Kivity , Linus Torvalds , Ingo Molnar , "linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org List" , "kvm@vger.kernel.org list" , qemu-devel Developers , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Am=E9rico_Wang?= , Blue Swirl On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Ted Ts'o wrote: > I don't think perf should be used as a precendent that now argues that > any new kernel utility should be moved into the kernel sources. =A0Does > it make sense to move all of mount, fsck, login, etc., into the kernel > sources? =A0There are far more kernel tools outside of the kernel > sources than inside the kernel sources. You seem to think that the KVM tool was developed in isolation and we simply copied the code to tools/kvm for the pull request. That's simply not true. We've done a lot of work to make the code feel like kernel code from locking primitive APIs to serial console emulation register names. We really consider KVM tool to be a new Linux subsystem. It's the long lost cousin or bastard child of KVM, depending on who you ask. I don't know if it makes sense to merge the tools you've mentioned above. My gut feeling is that it's probably not reasonable - there's already a community working on it with their own development process and coding style. I don't think there's a simple answer to this but I don't agree with your rather extreme position that all userspace tools should be kept out of the kernel tree. Pekka