Re: Xen document day (Oct 12 or 26)

[Joseph Glanville <joseph.glanville@orionvm.com.au>]

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Yeah MoinMoin is abit frustrating.. I am currently going through the pages
in the TitleIndex:
http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/TitleIndex
Marking pages as out-dated as a find them.. maybe it would be best to create
a google spreadsheet and mark their status in there to ease finding what
content is good vs bad?
How does that sound Lars/Ian?

Joseph.

On 29 September 2011 21:29, Ian Campbell <Ian.Campbell@eu.citrix.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 2011-09-29 at 12:24 +0100, Joseph Glanville wrote:
> > Maybe the wiki frontpage etc needs abit of a restructure to highlight
> > the newer documentation and try steer people away from old stuff?
> > I am going to try do some tagging of the wiki pages tonight to mark
> > what is out of date.
> > Many of the pages I think just need simplification.. the current wiki
> > is somewhat of an information overload (which is fine but we shouldn't
> > bombard new users if we can avoid it)
>
> I think Lars (now CC'd) is planning a switch to a new wiki platform
> since the current one is very long in the tooth and not especially
> capable. AIUI part of the transfer will involve discarding out of date
> stuff and better categorisation of correct/up-to-date pages etc.
>
> I'm not sure how the timescales for that transition compare with this
> documentathon though...
>
> Ian.
>
> > On 29 September 2011 21:01, Ian Campbell <Ian.Campbell@eu.citrix.com>
> > wrote:
> >         On Thu, 2011-09-29 at 11:53 +0100, Joseph Glanville wrote:
> >         > +1 for Markdown.
> >         >
> >         > In terms of making Xen more accessible I think it might be a
> >         good idea
> >         > to update/cleanup the distro support page.
> >         > http://wiki.xen.org/xenwiki/DistributionSupport
> >         >
> >         > I can probably do this.
> >
> >
> >         Excellent, it looks like it needs it...
> >
> >         > Making it simple for people to get started with Xen on a
> >         distro they
> >         > are comfortable with is a good step forward.
> >
> >
> >         Agreed. In fact for many users this is probably the end goal,
> >         not just a
> >         step along the way.
> >
> >         > I know distro specific guides could turn into a nightmare
> >         but I am
> >         > open to writing one for Debian 6 Squeeze,
> >
> >
> >         In cases such as this we should also consider updating the
> >         distro's wiki
> >         page. I'm not sure where the canonical guide should live
> >         (wiki.xen.org
> >         or wiki.debian.org) but they should certainly cross reference
> >         each
> >         other.
> >
> > Yeah that's a tricky one, I guess we can start at wiki.xen.org and go
> > from there.
> > Seeing as Debian repackages Xen, wiki.debian.org should probably be
> > the final canonical location.
> >
> >
> >
> >         >  there are also a few that exist already for RHEL/CentOS on
> >         the wiki.
> >         > This should get easier as more distros update to 3.0+
> >         kernels that
> >         > support PVops out of the box...
> >         >
> >         > Next would be networking documentation as network-bridge
> >         script has
> >         > been deprecated.
> >         > http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenNetworking
> >         > Once again I think alot of the documentation is going to be
> >         distro
> >         > specific to be newbie friendly but atleast a simple ip/brctl
> >         guide
> >         > would help.
> >         >
> >         > IMO knowing where to start and setting up networking were
> >         the biggest
> >         > barriers when I was picking up Xen a few years back.
> >
> >
> >         We now have
> >         http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/HostConfiguration/Networking
> >         which
> >         could do with being made more discoverable.
> >
> > That is -much- better and as you said should be much easier to find..
> >
> >
> >         There is also
> >         http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/HostConfiguration but
> >         its looking pretty sad right now...
> >
> > I can think of some stuff to fill that up.
> > eg. Howto enable live migration, local VM storage guide possibly
> >
> >
> >
> >         >
> >         > I am also open to updating the blktap2 pages and README to
> >         reflect the
> >         > new tap-ctl userspace utilities and tips on driver
> >         development.
> >         >
> >         > <slightly off-topic but related>
> >         >
> >         > With jailtime.org(stacklet) now charging for subscription
> >         there is
> >         > nowhere to download pre-built clean Xen compatible images
> >         free of
> >         > charge etc.
> >         > I have pvgrub/pygrub capable images of Ubuntu/Debian/CentOS
> >         that I am
> >         > considering hosting for free.
> >         > Generally new users are confused on how to build new
> >         paravirt VMs, I
> >         > think prebuilt images are suboptimal but a good place to
> >         start for
> >         > beginners.
> >
> >
> >         There was discussion of Debian providing such a thing on
> >         debian-deval
> >         back in late July, I should chase that up really.
> >
> >         Cheers,
> >         Ian.
> >
> >
> >         >
> >         > Joseph.
> >         >
> >         > On 29 September 2011 00:00, Ian Campbell
> >         <Ian.Campbell@eu.citrix.com>
> >         > wrote:
> >         >         On Wed, 2011-09-28 at 14:48 +0100, Konrad Rzeszutek
> >         Wilk
> >         >         wrote:
> >         >         > On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 02:26:31PM +0100, Ian
> >         Jackson wrote:
> >         >         > > Ian Campbell writes ("Re: [Xen-devel] Xen
> >         document day
> >         >         (Oct 12 or 26)"):
> >         >         > > > Since the guest APIs are stable there should
> >         be
> >         >         relatively little churn
> >         >         > > > so perhaps a wiki page (or even series of
> >         pages) would
> >         >         be appropriate
> >         >         > > > for this sort of thing?
> >         >         > >
> >         >         > > I want this to be in-tree.  If it's in-tree, we
> >         can refuse
> >         >         patches
> >         >         > > which do not update the documentation.
> >         >         > >
> >         >         > > > I think this would be good too and in fact
> >         even more
> >         >         important than the
> >         >         > > > interface documentation. Everyone needs to be
> >         able to
> >         >         build Xen to hack
> >         >         > > > on it but only a subset need to know any
> >         particular API.
> >         >         > > >
> >         >         > > > Also although we recommend that users consume
> >         Xen via
> >         >         their distro where
> >         >         > > > possible such a guide would also help any who
> >         would
> >         >         rather build from
> >         >         > > > scratch (e.g. because we've asked them to "try
> >         the
> >         >         latest version" or to
> >         >         > > > bisect a bug etc).
> >         >         > >
> >         >         > > This would be a good candidate for a wiki page,
> >         backed up
> >         >         by revisions
> >         >         > > of the in-tree README.
> >         >         >
> >         >         >
> >         >         > Any recommendations on what would be a good format
> >         to write
> >         >         these "interface"
> >         >         > pages in?
> >         >
> >         >
> >         >         For in-line (i.e. in xen/include/public/*.h) docs of
> >         APIs I
> >         >         played a
> >         >         little bit with integrating kernel-doc into the Xen
> >         build
> >         >         system but it
> >         >         is tied a little too closely to the kernel build
> >         >         infrastructure.
> >         >
> >         >         Doxygen seems like a plausible alternative with life
> >         outside
> >         >         the kernel
> >         >         etc. We actually appear to already have some doxygen
> >         stuff for
> >         >         the
> >         >         pytyhon stuff (judging from the Makefile, I've not
> >         actually
> >         >         noticed the
> >         >         structured code comments anywhere)
> >         >
> >         >         For non-inline docs I think we decided that markdown
> >         would be
> >         >         a good
> >         >         answer.
> >         >
> >         >         Ian.
> >         >
> >         >
> >         >
> >         >         _______________________________________________
> >         >         Xen-devel mailing list
> >         >         Xen-devel@lists.xensource.com
> >         >         http://lists.xensource.com/xen-devel
> >         >
> >         >
> >         >
> >         >
> >         > --
> >         > Founder | Director | VP Research
> >         >
> >         > Orion Virtualisation Solutions | www.orionvm.com.au | Phone:
> >         1300 56
> >         > 99 52 | Mobile: 0428 754 846
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Founder | Director | VP Research
> >
> > Orion Virtualisation Solutions | www.orionvm.com.au | Phone: 1300 56
> > 99 52 | Mobile: 0428 754 846
>
>
>


-- 
*
Founder | Director | VP Research
Orion Virtualisation Solutions* | www.orionvm.com.au | Phone: 1300 56 99 52
| Mobile: 0428 754 846

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