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Thread-Topic: Any interest in a QEMU emulation BoF at KVM Forum? 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envelope-from=mburton@qti.qualcomm.com; helo=mx0a-0031df01.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -26 X-Spam_score: -2.7 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 11:56:37 -0400 X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" --_000_MWHPR0201MB360986F251B942516E1ED0F38F789MWHPR0201MB3609_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am VERY interested in these topics from a Qualcomm perspective. I=92ll be= there from Tuesday morning, I think a =93BoF=94 would be very helpful =85 Cheers Mark. On 31/08/2022, 17:20, "Alex Benn=E9e" wrote: WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary of = any links or attachments, and do not enable macros. Hi, Given our slowly growing range of TCG emulations and the evident interest in keeping up with modern processor architectures is it worth having an emulation focused BoF at the up-coming KVM Forum? Some potential topics for discussion I could think of might include: * Progress towards heterogeneous vCPU emulation We've been making slow progress in removing assumptions from the various front-ends about their global nature and adding accel:TCG abstractions and support for the translator loop. We can already have CPUs from the same architecture family in a model. What else do we need to do so we can have those funky ARM+RiscV+Tricore heterogeneous models? Is it library or something else? * External Device Models I know this is a contentious topic given the potential for GPL end-runs. However there are also good arguments for enabling the testing of open source designs without having forcing the implementation of a separate C model to test software. For example if we hypothetically modelled a Pi Pico would it make sense to model the PIO in C if we could just compile the Verilog for it into a SystemC model? Would a plethora of closed device models be the inevitable consequence of such an approach? Would it matter if we just concentrated on supporting useful open source solutions? * Dynamic Machine Models While we try and avoid modelling bespoke virtual HW in QEMU (virt/goldfish not withstanding ;-) there is obviously a desire in the EDA space to allow such experimentation. Is this something we can provide so aspiring HW engineers can experiment with system architectures without having to form QEMU and learn QOM. There have been suggestions about consuming device trees or maybe translating to QMP calls and adding support for wiring devices together. Given the number of forks that exist is this something that could be better supported upstream without degenerating into messy hacks? * A sense of time Currently we have the fairly limited support for -icount in QEMU. At the same time we have no desire to start expanding frontends with the details cost models required for a more realistic sense of time to be presented. One suggestion is to expand the TCG plugin interface to allow for the plugin to control time allowing as much or little logic to be pushed there as we like and freeing up frontends from ever having to consider it. Are any of these topics of interest? Are there any other emulation topics people would like to discuss? -- Alex Benn=E9e --_000_MWHPR0201MB360986F251B942516E1ED0F38F789MWHPR0201MB3609_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am VERY interested in these topics from a Qualcomm perspective. I= =92ll be there from Tuesday morning,  I think a =93BoF=94 would be ver= y helpful =85

Cheers
Mark.

 

 

 

On 31/08/2022, 17:20, "Alex Benn=E9e" <alex.bennee@l= inaro.org> wrote:

 

WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please b= e wary of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.

Hi,

Given our slowly growing range of TCG emulations and the evident
interest in keeping up with modern processor architectures is it worth
having an emulation focused BoF at the up-coming KVM Forum?

Some potential topics for discussion I could think of might include:

 * Progress towards heterogeneous vCPU emulation

 We've been making slow progress in removing assumptions from the
 various front-ends about their global nature and adding accel:TCG
 abstractions and support for the translator loop. We can already have=
 CPUs from the same architecture family in a model. What else do we ne= ed
 to do so we can have those funky ARM+RiscV+Tricore heterogeneous
 models? Is it library or something else?

 * External Device Models

 I know this is a contentious topic given the potential for GPL
 end-runs. However there are also good arguments for enabling the
 testing of open source designs without having forcing the
 implementation of a separate C model to test software. For example if=
 we hypothetically modelled a Pi Pico would it make sense to model the=
 PIO in C if we could just compile the Verilog for it into a SystemC  model? Would a plethora of closed device models be the inevitable
 consequence of such an approach? Would it matter if we just
 concentrated on supporting useful open source solutions?

 * Dynamic Machine Models

 While we try and avoid modelling bespoke virtual HW in QEMU
 (virt/goldfish not withstanding ;-) there is obviously a desire in th= e
 EDA space to allow such experimentation. Is this something we can
 provide so aspiring HW engineers can experiment with system
 architectures without having to form QEMU and learn QOM. There have  been suggestions about consuming device trees or maybe translating to=
 QMP calls and adding support for wiring devices together. Given the  number of forks that exist is this something that could be better
 supported upstream without degenerating into messy hacks?

 * A sense of time

 Currently we have the fairly limited support for -icount in QEMU. At<= br>  the same time we have no desire to start expanding frontends with
 the details cost models required for a more realistic sense of time t= o
 be presented. One suggestion is to expand the TCG plugin interface to=
 allow for the plugin to control time allowing as much or little logic=
 to be pushed there as we like and freeing up frontends from ever havi= ng
 to consider it.

Are any of these topics of interest? Are there any other emulation
topics people would like to discuss?

--
Alex Benn=E9e

--_000_MWHPR0201MB360986F251B942516E1ED0F38F789MWHPR0201MB3609_--