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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
To: Jan-Benedict Glaw <jbglaw@lug-owl.de>
Cc: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com>
Subject: Re: C++ pushback
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 13:09:38 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0604261305010.3701@g5.osdl.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20060426200134.GS25520@lug-owl.de>



On Wed, 26 Apr 2006, Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote:
> 
> There's one _practical_ thing you need to keep in mind: you'll either
> need 'C++'-clean kernel headers (to interface low-level kernel
> functions) or a separate set of headers.

I suspect it would be easier to just do

	extern "C" {
	#include <linux/xyz.h>
	...
	}

instead of having anything really C++'aware in the headers.

If by "clean" you meant that the above works, then yeah, there might be 
_some_ cases where we use C++ keywords etc in the headers, but they should 
be pretty unusual and easy to fix.

The real problem with C++ for kernel modules is:

 - the language just sucks. Sorry, but it does.
 - some of the C features we use may or may not be usable from C++ 
   (statement expressions?)
 - the compilers are slower, and less reliable. This is _less_ of an issue 
   these days than it used to be (at least the reliability part), but it's 
   still true.
 - a lot of the C++ features just won't be supported sanely (ie the kernel 
   infrastructure just doesn't do exceptions for C++, nor will it run any 
   static constructors etc).

Anyway, it should all be doable. Not necessarily even very hard. But I 
doubt it's worth it.

		Linus

  reply	other threads:[~2006-04-26 20:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 196+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-04-24 19:16 Compiling C++ modules Gary Poppitz
2006-04-24 19:27 ` Greg KH
2006-04-24 20:02   ` C++ pushback Gary Poppitz
2006-04-24 20:15     ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-04-24 20:16     ` Greg KH
2006-04-24 20:18     ` Martin Mares
2006-04-24 21:36       ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-04-24 21:28         ` J.A. Magallon
2006-04-24 21:43           ` Harald Arnesen
2006-04-24 21:52         ` Alan Cox
2006-04-24 22:16           ` J.A. Magallon
2006-04-25  0:05             ` Harald Arnesen
2006-04-25  0:46               ` Diego Calleja
2006-04-25  9:12                 ` Harald Arnesen
2006-04-25  1:30             ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-04-25  2:58               ` marty fouts
2006-04-27 22:55               ` Bill Davidsen
2006-05-02 15:58                 ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-05-02 20:36                 ` David Schwartz
2006-04-25  8:15             ` Xavier Bestel
2006-04-25  8:42               ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25  8:52                 ` Martin Mares
2006-04-25  9:00                   ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25  9:05                     ` Martin Mares
2006-04-25  9:13                       ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25  9:22                         ` Xavier Bestel
2006-04-25 20:20                           ` J.A. Magallon
2006-04-25 20:31                             ` Barry Kelly
2006-04-25  9:09             ` Nikita Danilov
2006-04-25 20:10               ` J.A. Magallon
2006-04-25 18:02             ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-04-27  9:09             ` Alexander E. Patrakov
2006-04-24 22:39           ` Willy Tarreau
2006-04-24 22:57           ` Jeff V. Merkey
2006-04-24 23:02       ` David Schwartz
2006-04-25  8:55         ` Martin Mares
2006-04-25  8:59           ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-25 14:37           ` David Schwartz
2006-04-25 19:50             ` Martin Mares
2006-04-26  2:33               ` David Schwartz
2006-04-26  3:42                 ` Matthew Frost
2006-04-26 19:25                   ` David Schwartz
2006-04-26 20:01                     ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2006-04-26 20:09                       ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2006-04-26 20:19                         ` Al Viro
2006-04-26 21:37                           ` Sam Ravnborg
2006-04-28  9:23                             ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-28 12:00                               ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-04-28 12:46                                 ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2006-04-26 20:25                         ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2006-04-26 20:43                         ` David Schwartz
2006-04-26 23:00                         ` Roman Kononov
2006-04-27  0:38                           ` Kyle Moffett
2006-04-27  2:05                             ` Roman Kononov
2006-04-27  3:37                               ` Kyle Moffett
2006-04-27  5:37                                 ` Roman Kononov
2006-04-27 13:58                                   ` Michael Buesch
2006-04-27 14:22                                     ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-04-27  8:07                                 ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-27 13:55                                   ` Denis Vlasenko
2006-04-27 14:27                                     ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-27 14:56                                       ` Denis Vlasenko
2006-04-27 15:54                                         ` Bob Copeland
2006-04-27 16:03                                         ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-27 15:00                                       ` Martin Mares
2006-04-27 15:31                                         ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-27 15:38                                           ` Martin Mares
2006-04-28  8:16                                             ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-28  8:30                                               ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-28 15:47                                               ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-28 15:51                                       ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-28 16:51                                         ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-27 14:50                                 ` Sam Ravnborg
2006-04-27  8:50                               ` Martin Mares
2006-04-27  3:57                           ` Willy Tarreau
2006-04-27  5:53                             ` Roman Kononov
2006-04-27  7:55                           ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2006-04-27 17:20                           ` C++ pushback (when does this religious thread end?) Leonard Peterson
2006-04-30 17:48                           ` C++ pushback Jan Harkes
2006-04-30 20:55                             ` David Schwartz
2006-04-26 20:05                     ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-04-26 20:09                     ` Xavier Bestel
2006-04-26 20:44                       ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-05-02 20:09                         ` C++ pushback + sparse Randy.Dunlap
2006-04-27  7:49                       ` C++ pushback Jiri Kosina
2006-04-26 21:05                     ` Martin Mares
2006-04-25  7:33       ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25  7:47         ` Nick Piggin
2006-05-13 16:21         ` Esben Nielsen
2006-04-24 20:36     ` Thiago Galesi
2006-04-24 21:38     ` Kurt Wall
2006-04-27 16:17     ` Roman Kononov
2006-04-27 21:59       ` Grant Coady
2006-04-27 22:09     ` Bill Davidsen
2006-04-27 23:19       ` Jan Knutar
2006-04-24 19:30 ` Compiling C++ modules Al Viro
2006-04-24 19:40 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-04-24 20:54   ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-04-24 19:42 ` Alexey Dobriyan
2006-04-24 20:30 ` Daniel Barkalow
2006-04-24 20:35 ` C++ is in US [Re: Compiling C++ modules] Jiri Slaby
2006-04-24 20:45 ` Compiling C++ modules Alan Cox
2006-04-24 21:03   ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-24 21:23     ` Joshua Hudson
2006-04-24 21:29     ` Kyle Moffett
2006-04-24 21:50       ` marty fouts
2006-04-24 22:09         ` Martin Mares
2006-04-24 22:30           ` Willy Tarreau
2006-04-24 22:32           ` Joshua Hudson
2006-04-24 22:45           ` marty fouts
2006-04-25 15:32         ` Michael Buesch
2006-04-25  7:08       ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25 10:23         ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-04-25 15:59         ` Kyle Moffett
2006-04-25 16:46           ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25 17:10             ` Dmitry Torokhov
2006-04-25 17:19               ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25 17:28                 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2006-04-25 17:53                   ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25 18:04                     ` Dmitry Torokhov
2006-04-25 18:08                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-25 18:26                       ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25 18:38                         ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25 18:52                           ` Michael Poole
2006-04-25 19:13                             ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-27 15:10                     ` Denis Vlasenko
2006-04-27 20:15                       ` Willy Tarreau
2006-04-27 21:08                         ` Davi Arnaut
2006-04-28  9:33                           ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-28 10:03                             ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-28 11:27                               ` Sergei Organov
2006-04-28 11:03                             ` Martin Mares
2006-04-28 11:30                               ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-28 15:56                                 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-28 17:02                                   ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-28 17:38                                     ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-04-29  2:50                                       ` Christer Weinigel
2006-05-01 17:46                                       ` Dave Neuer
2006-05-01 20:21                                         ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-05-01 23:53                                         ` David Schwartz
2006-05-02  5:12                                           ` Willy Tarreau
2006-05-02 10:32                                             ` Avi Kivity
2006-05-02 11:15                                               ` Martin Mares
2006-05-02 11:26                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2006-05-02 11:40                                                   ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-05-02 12:42                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2006-05-02 16:27                                                     ` Christer Weinigel
2006-05-02 12:48                                                   ` Martin Mares
2006-05-02 13:52                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2006-05-02 14:13                                                       ` Al Viro
2006-05-02 14:54                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2006-05-02 16:16                                                   ` Brian Beattie
2006-05-02 16:21                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2006-05-02 13:21                                               ` Willy Tarreau
2006-05-02 14:41                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2006-05-02 22:25                                                   ` Diego Calleja
2006-05-02 13:34                                               ` Al Viro
2006-05-02 14:02                                                 ` Avi Kivity
2006-05-02 14:34                                                   ` Al Viro
2006-05-02 15:04                                                     ` Avi Kivity
2006-05-02 15:15                                                       ` Al Viro
2006-05-02 15:19                                                         ` Avi Kivity
2006-05-02 15:27                                                           ` Kyle Moffett
2006-05-02 15:30                                                             ` Avi Kivity
2006-05-02 15:28                                                           ` Al Viro
2006-05-02 15:51                                                             ` Avi Kivity
2006-05-02 15:24                                                         ` Kyle Moffett
2006-05-03 13:13                                           ` Mark Lord
2006-05-03 20:51                                             ` David Schwartz
2006-04-30 21:15                               ` Eric W. Biederman
2006-04-25 17:54                 ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-04-26  8:30                   ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-26 11:36                     ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2006-04-25 19:22             ` Kyle Moffett
2006-04-25 19:54               ` Michael Buesch
2006-04-25 20:24               ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25 20:11             ` Bongani Hlope
2006-04-25 20:26               ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25 21:02                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2006-04-25 21:15                   ` Avi Kivity
     [not found]                     ` <71a0d6ff0604251646g4fc90b3dr30a03b8606360e7f@mail.gmail.com>
2006-04-26  4:39                       ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25 17:55           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2006-04-24 21:58     ` Alan Cox
2006-04-25  7:20       ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25  9:06         ` Matt Keenan
2006-04-25 20:29           ` Bongani Hlope
2006-04-25 20:37             ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25 21:08               ` Bongani Hlope
2006-04-25  4:17     ` Martin J. Bligh
2006-04-25  5:30       ` Avi Kivity
2006-04-25  8:58         ` Sam Ravnborg
2006-04-25  7:56     ` Jakob Oestergaard
2006-04-25  9:03     ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-04-24 21:36   ` J.A. Magallon
     [not found] <65Jcu-3js-23@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <665wi-39E-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <669JO-WQ-59@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <66fcv-Cu-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
2006-04-27 14:23       ` C++ pushback Robert Hancock
2006-04-27 14:41         ` Denis Vlasenko

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