From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by ozlabs.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B750AB7BBD for ; Sun, 27 Sep 2009 03:58:45 +1000 (EST) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:58:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Guennadi Liakhovetski To: Konstantinos Margaritis Subject: Re: Market research for new PowerPC system In-Reply-To: <0046254A-432D-4AE3-9B9F-C0D30311B7D7@codex.gr> Message-ID: References: <0046254A-432D-4AE3-9B9F-C0D30311B7D7@codex.gr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cc: debian-powerpc@lists.debian.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, opensuse-ppc@opensuse.org List-Id: Linux on PowerPC Developers Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Sat, 26 Sep 2009, Konstantinos Margaritis wrote: > (Sorry for the cross-posting, please ignore if you are not interested in this, > CC me as I'm not subscribed) > Hi, > > First some introductions. I'm Konstantinos Margaritis, a long time > Amiga/BeOS/Linux user/developer and a PowerPC fan, former Debian Developer, > also a SIMD/AltiVec fanatic and the author of libfreevec. I've posted this on > the following sites: > > http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=29594&forum=33&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0 > > http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49424 > > http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6465&forum=11 > > http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&topic_id=3768&forum=4 > > http://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/market_research_new_powerpc_system#comment-12604 > > To anyone who is not a PowerPC user, it might seem like crazy, but here it > goes: > > I'm considering funding the design & production of a new PowerPC system (well, > the motherboard, the rest are typical pc stuff and a case). No this is not a > joke, I've been wanting to do this for a long time, and perhaps the chance > will be given to me now. But before I spend any money on this, I want to do a > little market research first. I know the market is literally "dying" for a new > powerpc motherboard, but exactly how many are there that want to buy one? Ok, just a short comment. In principle I like diversity, competition, etc. And it was somewhat sad when Apple abandoned ppc. But honestly - why should I be buying a ppc desktop system? If we restrict our comparison to Linux, because that's what I'm using, what advantages would a ppc system give me over a comparable in price ix86 system? This is not meant negatively, I just have not followed recent ppc CPUs from the "desktop" range, so, this is a real honest question. Would such a system provide more MIPS per Watt at the same price? Or more periferals? Or some specific hardware blocks unavailable or unsupported om ix86? Thanks Guennadi > > Ok, let's give some rough specs first. I'm considering 3 choices -not in order > of probability/importance: > > 1. MPC8640D-based. It will be dual core at 1Ghz -most likely, higher > frequencies are much more expensive and the cost of the final board would be > prohibitive. > 2. MPC8610-based. Single core at 1Ghz, slightly less expensive, and includes a > 2D DIU display unit -quite fast, but no 3D unfortunately. > 3. QorIQ P1022-based. Again dual core at 1Ghz (1055Mhz to be precise). Apart > from the much lower chip price, this one includes dual gigabit ethernet, dual > SATA, USB 2.0 and a 2D DIU display unit (same as the MPC8610). So this one > would lower the cost of the board quite much. Disadvantages: No AltiVec unit > (it sucks I know), though it includes an SPE unit which is not that bad, and > availability will be in Q3/Q4 2010, so that's a long wait. > > Now, the end motherboard will probably be MicroATX (in the 8640D/8610 case) or > PicoITX (in the P1022 case), and it will definitely include: > > * SATA connectors > * USB (possibly 2 back and 2 front, but that's discussable) > * Dual gigabit (at least one will be there, in the case of the MPC8640D we > might even have 4!!!) > * Sound (of course, SPDIF support will definitely be there) > * 1 PCI-e slot 1x > * 1 PCI-e slot (4x in the P1022 case, 8x in the MPC86xx cases) > > Ok, what I want to know is if people would really really buy one of these. End > price is estimated to be ~around~ 350EUR for the P1022 board or ~500EUR > (definitely more in the case of 8640D) in the case of the other boards. > Besides being more expensive, the MPC86xx chips, don't include SATA, USB and > only one of ethernet/sound (quad-gige in MPC8640D case, or sound in the case > of MPC8610). I know this sounds a lot, but it's the reality, there is not > enough funding to build enormous amounts of units and bring the prices down > substantially, we have to start low and build up from there. In case you are > wondering, yes, the boards will be designed/produced by bPlan and funded by my > company (Codex). > > Support for OSes: Linux definitely, Haiku most probably and there is a > possibility of supporting AmigaOS/MorphOS, which will depend on the actual > feedback I get from those users. > > I would like to make a list of everyone that is really interested in such a > system, so it would really help me make a decision sooner rather than later if > you would send me a few personal details to markos@codex.gr with subject > "PowerPC board": > > * Name > * Country > * email (definitely, I'd have to reach you back!) > * Phone/Skype (optional, please include international prefix) > * Forum you saw this post (ok, Morphzone in this case) > * OS of preference > * board you would be most interested in (MPC8610/MPC8640D/P1022) > * preferred price (please have in mind the estimated price quotes I mentioned, > it might be lower but that's not very probable) > * Other notes/comments > > Also, I found out that I had to state my case on many forums to prove that > this is not vapourware. Well, it will not be vapourware, if I get feedback. So > far the feedback I got can be summarized here: > > http://www.codex.gr/index.php?pageID=&blogItem=60 > > Thanks a lot for your time and I hope this system becomes a reality. > > Konstantinos Margaritis > > Codex > _______________________________________________ > Linuxppc-dev mailing list > Linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org > https://lists.ozlabs.org/listinfo/linuxppc-dev --- Guennadi Liakhovetski, Ph.D. Freelance Open-Source Software Developer http://www.open-technology.de/