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Wed, 13 Jan 2021 04:30:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 21:30:28 +0900 From: William Breathitt Gray To: Linus Walleij Cc: Andy Shevchenko , David Laight , Arnd Bergmann , Willy Tarreau , Linux ARM , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Krzysztof Adamski , Oleksij Rempel , Baruch Siach , Russell King - ARM Linux , Daniel Tang , Uwe =?utf-8?Q?Kleine-K=C3=B6nig?= , Jamie Iles , Barry Song , Viresh Kumar , Jonas Jensen , Marc Gonzalez , Hartley Sweeten , Lubomir Rintel , Neil Armstrong , Shawn Guo , Alex Elder , Alexander Shiyan , Koen Vandeputte , Hans Ulli Kroll , Vladimir Zapolskiy , Wei Xu , Steven Rostedt , Yoshinori Sato , Mark Salter , Michael Ellerman , Geert Uytterhoeven , Thomas Bogendoerfer Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead Message-ID: References: <20210109055645.GA2009@1wt.eu> <6fb7e3f5035d44fab9801001f1811b59@AcuMS.aculab.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="UmhiVe9cN4Tq8lpv" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --UmhiVe9cN4Tq8lpv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 01:02:20PM +0100, Linus Walleij wrote: > On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 11:27 AM Andy Shevchenko > wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 11:55 AM David Laight = wrote: >=20 > > > basically 486 but have a few extra instructions - probably just cpuid > > > and (IIRC) rdtsc. > > > Designed for low power embedded use they won't ever have been suitable > > > for a desktop - but are probably fast enough for some uses. > > > I'm not sure how much keeping 486 support actually costs, 386 was a > > > PITA - but the 486 fixed most of those issues. > > > > Right, we have "last of mohicans" (to date) Intel Quark family of CPUs > > (486 core + few i586 features). > > This is for the embedded world and probably not for powerful use. >=20 > What is the status of PC/104? > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC/104 >=20 > I have three GPIO drivers for PC/104 machines and these are for > embedded industrial usecases. I am curious about what CPUs these > beasts run on in practice? Are they getting upgraded? >=20 > Paging William, I think he work on these daily. >=20 > Yours, > Linus Walleij I don't really see pure PC/104 systems around that much anymore, but there are still plenty of PC/104-Plus and PCI-104 setups in production. The PC/104 form factor is popular because users can stack PC/104 compatible modules easily together to build custom solutions; see for example the diagram on this page: https://www.advantech.com/embedded-boards-design-in-services/embedded-singl= e-board-computers/pc104-and-pc104-plus As far as the CPU is concerned, these systems are typically for industrial applications and run CPUs geared for low-power consumption -- you're looking at processor series such as the Intel Bay trail (https://www.winsystems.com/product/epx-c414/), DMP Vortex86DX (http://www.diamondsystems.com/products/helios), and AMD G-series (https://www.advantech.com/products/1-2jkltu/pcm-3356/mod_0706f4d5-2e44-473= a-a7b7-53bd1a7bd1a0). TLDR; PC/104 is certainly a niche market focused on industrial consumers, but the form factor and devices are still popular and upgraded reguarly. William Breathitt Gray --UmhiVe9cN4Tq8lpv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEk5I4PDJ2w1cDf/bghvpINdm7VJIFAl/+58sACgkQhvpINdm7 VJI8BRAArRPORTMYpY/tyUB0frIrCrrKW42Iu8h+qE4a9snxWF+5V6Iul58auY9e AQXFU1TUYcFHKcNglXb5YzGJ8zoafXl7RPAE7DKIcPIzIS8MAh3+rEXvRFdTcJ2s KE9bwo0+uBg3qu3YqKccWbTKT7gAKIZmAGKOYGQpxmRGYfiYqXb5Fb0VPD/ColAk b38WMUIBhXAo11DmHuGsGgah1Cz9H4blRU4fmUkw2jyhtGiTYRnTytv0Q76ZV+LY 1zH2eGPsd6RFsKeE3TWJQx6jDZI26DLvPFYmam6R2acNUdYGgH69izmRpAkVa/JJ 3ZIuWVctVUpm58JjjJ9rjekzZAHIOiw9wIRajHV3NCMjNBdJgDqYNVZjRFvF0WCZ s3kMhpxwURkefPUecHkQV7SY0NKZQH9noH44aRw0+M9FDSASwtJLDhOAaMSbgSA+ YCr4DsDe94I5HxpJNIAiBhAKq28NISSAorOlFFbtvDbXuzB4DHBsogiDCv1BbBCV jce3c2eRO/eB1fOgybtozGAizkPu0HloKgpOui0yPwjkowM4v/SZP9CX5T/GgxMA qt3c5y2wr19F1e9GEcjbObPW/hiYFRGkKxUCcQYZpdpsh4chNBJZDGUwvl6pjjtQ uTrqZyRll7sjCFcqE6FnNEOe6G+QL+fwQ5DlVnhVDQC6YiSgX04= =c68M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UmhiVe9cN4Tq8lpv-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29885C433DB for ; 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Wed, 13 Jan 2021 04:30:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from shinobu ([193.27.12.132]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t17sm1142070ioc.8.2021.01.13.04.30.32 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 13 Jan 2021 04:30:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2021 21:30:28 +0900 From: William Breathitt Gray To: Linus Walleij Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead Message-ID: References: <20210109055645.GA2009@1wt.eu> <6fb7e3f5035d44fab9801001f1811b59@AcuMS.aculab.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20210113_073048_474969_F2E95E79 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 25.30 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Baruch Siach , Geert Uytterhoeven , Neil Armstrong , Viresh Kumar , Daniel Tang , Jamie Iles , Krzysztof Adamski , Alexander Shiyan , Michael Ellerman , Yoshinori Sato , Russell King - ARM Linux , Wei Xu , Oleksij Rempel , Andy Shevchenko , Alex Elder , Marc Gonzalez , Hans Ulli Kroll , Uwe =?utf-8?Q?Kleine-K=C3=B6nig?= , Steven Rostedt , Vladimir Zapolskiy , Lubomir Rintel , Koen Vandeputte , Linux ARM , Barry Song , Arnd Bergmann , Thomas Bogendoerfer , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Jonas Jensen , Hartley Sweeten , David Laight , Mark Salter , Shawn Guo , Willy Tarreau Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5000594959403346832==" Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org --===============5000594959403346832== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="UmhiVe9cN4Tq8lpv" Content-Disposition: inline --UmhiVe9cN4Tq8lpv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 01:02:20PM +0100, Linus Walleij wrote: > On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 11:27 AM Andy Shevchenko > wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 11:55 AM David Laight = wrote: >=20 > > > basically 486 but have a few extra instructions - probably just cpuid > > > and (IIRC) rdtsc. > > > Designed for low power embedded use they won't ever have been suitable > > > for a desktop - but are probably fast enough for some uses. > > > I'm not sure how much keeping 486 support actually costs, 386 was a > > > PITA - but the 486 fixed most of those issues. > > > > Right, we have "last of mohicans" (to date) Intel Quark family of CPUs > > (486 core + few i586 features). > > This is for the embedded world and probably not for powerful use. >=20 > What is the status of PC/104? > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC/104 >=20 > I have three GPIO drivers for PC/104 machines and these are for > embedded industrial usecases. I am curious about what CPUs these > beasts run on in practice? Are they getting upgraded? >=20 > Paging William, I think he work on these daily. >=20 > Yours, > Linus Walleij I don't really see pure PC/104 systems around that much anymore, but there are still plenty of PC/104-Plus and PCI-104 setups in production. The PC/104 form factor is popular because users can stack PC/104 compatible modules easily together to build custom solutions; see for example the diagram on this page: https://www.advantech.com/embedded-boards-design-in-services/embedded-singl= e-board-computers/pc104-and-pc104-plus As far as the CPU is concerned, these systems are typically for industrial applications and run CPUs geared for low-power consumption -- you're looking at processor series such as the Intel Bay trail (https://www.winsystems.com/product/epx-c414/), DMP Vortex86DX (http://www.diamondsystems.com/products/helios), and AMD G-series (https://www.advantech.com/products/1-2jkltu/pcm-3356/mod_0706f4d5-2e44-473= a-a7b7-53bd1a7bd1a0). TLDR; PC/104 is certainly a niche market focused on industrial consumers, but the form factor and devices are still popular and upgraded reguarly. William Breathitt Gray --UmhiVe9cN4Tq8lpv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEk5I4PDJ2w1cDf/bghvpINdm7VJIFAl/+58sACgkQhvpINdm7 VJI8BRAArRPORTMYpY/tyUB0frIrCrrKW42Iu8h+qE4a9snxWF+5V6Iul58auY9e AQXFU1TUYcFHKcNglXb5YzGJ8zoafXl7RPAE7DKIcPIzIS8MAh3+rEXvRFdTcJ2s KE9bwo0+uBg3qu3YqKccWbTKT7gAKIZmAGKOYGQpxmRGYfiYqXb5Fb0VPD/ColAk b38WMUIBhXAo11DmHuGsGgah1Cz9H4blRU4fmUkw2jyhtGiTYRnTytv0Q76ZV+LY 1zH2eGPsd6RFsKeE3TWJQx6jDZI26DLvPFYmam6R2acNUdYGgH69izmRpAkVa/JJ 3ZIuWVctVUpm58JjjJ9rjekzZAHIOiw9wIRajHV3NCMjNBdJgDqYNVZjRFvF0WCZ s3kMhpxwURkefPUecHkQV7SY0NKZQH9noH44aRw0+M9FDSASwtJLDhOAaMSbgSA+ YCr4DsDe94I5HxpJNIAiBhAKq28NISSAorOlFFbtvDbXuzB4DHBsogiDCv1BbBCV jce3c2eRO/eB1fOgybtozGAizkPu0HloKgpOui0yPwjkowM4v/SZP9CX5T/GgxMA qt3c5y2wr19F1e9GEcjbObPW/hiYFRGkKxUCcQYZpdpsh4chNBJZDGUwvl6pjjtQ uTrqZyRll7sjCFcqE6FnNEOe6G+QL+fwQ5DlVnhVDQC6YiSgX04= =c68M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --UmhiVe9cN4Tq8lpv-- --===============5000594959403346832== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel --===============5000594959403346832==--